The confessions of a forum addicit
- Thread starter gigilo
- Start date
i went to clubs and raves for 8 years and all the trouble would be caused by drinkers.Krizon . You are still missing the big point about hard drugs. They are far more addictive than alcohol, fags and dope. Heroin is extremely addictive. As much as alcoholism is a big problem, its still a small minority of drinkers who become addictive. Heroin is extremely hard for anyone to come off and a very high proportion of users become addicted.
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Often wonder why we have such a binge culture in this country? [although krizon did expain that earlier]. Supposedly due to the fact that the pubs closed early at one time, but can't see any difference now they're open all the time. I actually think that nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on the planet. Codeine is a problem these days also.
Earlier this year I had my wisdom teeth out and was given a codeine based drug to deal with pain before and after.The first day I had to take some in work I got a "high" -for the first time in my life I realised why people might take drugs.
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
You do not need to be "addicted" to alcohol to become just as much of a public nuisance (and burden on the state) as the most craven heroin addict.
In addition, there have been multiple studies which point to nicotine being more addictive than heroin, so the second part of your post is misleading at best.
The negative social impact of heroin abuse/addiction is tiny compared with that created in alcohol's wake. At the very least, there is a ridiculous imbalance in how each are treated; with one being not only legal, but actively encouraged, and the other leading to prison sentences for users. The hypocrisy around the entire subject is a joke, and the general tone of the debate not much better.
Have been on it and numerous other pain killers and never once noticed much of an affect to be honest. Dissappointing, think id be a terrible drugy.
Bollocks as usual. Drivel like this is the perfect argument against legalisation of drugs. All those dodgy roll ups and logic flown out of the window
Have you ever seen the difference between someone coming off fags and coming off heroin?
And what about crack cocaine which is extremely addictive? wheres the line being drawn?
Something to do with the number of people drinking compared with shooting their veins perhaps?
How many people drink in this country? 20m? 30m? Now imagine if they were all blown out of their minds each and every day on heroin? I think the economy would grind to a halt in no time at all. Fags are addictive but do not send people skywards for hours on end
Im not against drug legalisation (E might be one thats ok too) but 'legalised" creck houses and opium dens in the high street is not where we want to be
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Thank you, Grassy.
I've used amyl nitrate quite a bit in the past, magic mushrooms twice, tried weed and a line or two of a pal's extensive supply of coke. I enjoyed sniffing the amy, was given far too big a mug of mushroom coffee by my weed-growing chum (over six hours tripping - I thought you just saw fractals and colours for a few minutes, duh!) and had no fun from the weed or coke whatsoever. The coke reminded me of trips to the dentist (all memories filled with horror) and all I got was a numb palate and a tendency to sound like Lester Piggott for half an hour. I wanted to try some of the stuff out to see why people were so attracted to it. Uh, to say "I just don't get it" would be an understatement, but during a couple of decades I was not averse to having several drinks at parties and regrettably can count a few godawful hangovers among those experiences.
Clivex, I haven't missed any points at all. The amount of chronic heroin users is much, much less than chronic abusers of cigarettes and alcohol. The cost to society caused by house fires from dropped fags (especially dropped by drunken smokers), a variety of cancers caused by nicotine, car crashes caused by drunk drivers, domestic violence and fights ditto... there's little point in bigging-up heroin abuse when there are millions and millions wasted on the combined outgoings to recover from or treat the abuses of drink and fags. I know from the friend who has a son who has used heroin on and off for years that the cost is mostly financial, as he's stooped low enough to steal his own little daughter's Christmas presents to flog for a few more hits. His married life has been ruined and he's been in and out of jobs, getting nicked for thefts from time to time. But he is surviving so far off the drug and seems truly determined to stop using it. Who knows if he will? But I don't know of too many alcoholics and heavy smokers who stop their addictions, either. Their lives have revolved around these obsessions for too long to effect real changes, it seems. At some point, it's likely they'll kill themselves - unfortunately, they can often damage the lives of others while they're indulging themselves, too. I have a friend whose triple bypass was most likely required due to decades of exposure to passive smoking, first in her parents' house, and then in a succession of offices where she was the lone non-smoker among dozens getting through dozens every work day. At least you don't get inadvertently hooked on H by sitting next to a user on the bus!
And I'm pretty sure you know yourself that your conjecture about 40m smokers becoming 40m heroin users is entirely fatuous! There's no correlation at all. You might as well say that every person who's had a couple of quid on a Tote Exacta will become helplessly addicted and ruin their lives with reckless gambling. You know I enjoy a good debate with you, but let's keep to what we know and not what we can imagine!
I've used amyl nitrate quite a bit in the past, magic mushrooms twice, tried weed and a line or two of a pal's extensive supply of coke. I enjoyed sniffing the amy, was given far too big a mug of mushroom coffee by my weed-growing chum (over six hours tripping - I thought you just saw fractals and colours for a few minutes, duh!) and had no fun from the weed or coke whatsoever. The coke reminded me of trips to the dentist (all memories filled with horror) and all I got was a numb palate and a tendency to sound like Lester Piggott for half an hour. I wanted to try some of the stuff out to see why people were so attracted to it. Uh, to say "I just don't get it" would be an understatement, but during a couple of decades I was not averse to having several drinks at parties and regrettably can count a few godawful hangovers among those experiences.
Clivex, I haven't missed any points at all. The amount of chronic heroin users is much, much less than chronic abusers of cigarettes and alcohol. The cost to society caused by house fires from dropped fags (especially dropped by drunken smokers), a variety of cancers caused by nicotine, car crashes caused by drunk drivers, domestic violence and fights ditto... there's little point in bigging-up heroin abuse when there are millions and millions wasted on the combined outgoings to recover from or treat the abuses of drink and fags. I know from the friend who has a son who has used heroin on and off for years that the cost is mostly financial, as he's stooped low enough to steal his own little daughter's Christmas presents to flog for a few more hits. His married life has been ruined and he's been in and out of jobs, getting nicked for thefts from time to time. But he is surviving so far off the drug and seems truly determined to stop using it. Who knows if he will? But I don't know of too many alcoholics and heavy smokers who stop their addictions, either. Their lives have revolved around these obsessions for too long to effect real changes, it seems. At some point, it's likely they'll kill themselves - unfortunately, they can often damage the lives of others while they're indulging themselves, too. I have a friend whose triple bypass was most likely required due to decades of exposure to passive smoking, first in her parents' house, and then in a succession of offices where she was the lone non-smoker among dozens getting through dozens every work day. At least you don't get inadvertently hooked on H by sitting next to a user on the bus!
And I'm pretty sure you know yourself that your conjecture about 40m smokers becoming 40m heroin users is entirely fatuous! There's no correlation at all. You might as well say that every person who's had a couple of quid on a Tote Exacta will become helplessly addicted and ruin their lives with reckless gambling. You know I enjoy a good debate with you, but let's keep to what we know and not what we can imagine!
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Because it is illegal......
Where did i say that?
Im generally pretty libertarian on most issues, but i cant get my head round legally sanctioned highly addictive drugs which are drastically personality and lifestyle changing (the only defence about fags) being legally available. Its no good saying people will take them anyway because people will break the speed limit too but doesnt mean we abandon the law
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Didn't you? I'm tired, to be honest - dying for another cuppa, and have very kindly been given an entire side of smoked salmon by one of our lovely Lingfield owners, which I'm dying to set upon.
I don't think I can add any more (thank ferk for that, they cry in joy) so I'm going to leave off for tonight and just enjoy a really kitsch New Year's evening on tv. I might round it all off with a giant hit of endorphins (thank you, Mars Bars)...
Have a great evening, y'all!
I don't think I can add any more (thank ferk for that, they cry in joy) so I'm going to leave off for tonight and just enjoy a really kitsch New Year's evening on tv. I might round it all off with a giant hit of endorphins (thank you, Mars Bars)...
Have a great evening, y'all!
M
Marble
Guest
Happy new year everyone. Latest estimate has prescriptions of anti-depressants up a fifth in three years according to a mental health charity. I put it to you krizon for arguments sake, in relation to what we were talking about earlier, that all these 'technologies' and information strands don't actually make most people any happier. They simply feed on a need to be insular. That doesn't detract from facebook/arab revolutions and what not, but western society has never been so tranquilised and drugged up as we have now entered this brave new world. Just a thought!
Grasshopper
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 16,050
I refer you to my previous statement regarding the tone of the debate
The anti-depressants aren't doing the Greeks much good - a stat mentioned in a wrap of the year this morning said that suicides were up 40% this year. It didn't say what their suicide rate was, though, to provide a base figure, so not entirely helpful in arriving at stats. But it's still a monster raise, whatever it means.
No thing will make anyone happier, per se, Marble, in my experience. You have to develop a mindset that doesn't depend on externals to bring you whatever happiness means. The Industrial Revolution didn't necessarily bring happiness in its wake, as it meant that instead of being worked to an early grave in agricultural pursuits, another set of society could be worked to an early grave in industrial endeavours. But, in the long, long term, we would still all be shoving our horses between shafts if the IR never happened, and living by candle-light, cooking over wood fires, and shuffling about in clogs. The IR was the foundation sire of today's constantly-evolving technology, but its purpose was to speed up production, and thus enhance profits, not to bring the concept of happiness to the people - and regardless of how it's marketed, that's what it's all about today.
Not everything that happens initially brings 'happiness' to those involved with its inception, nor is there any reason why it should. What it might do, though, is by providing a new area of work opportunities, is to create many more chances for new ways of thinking and thus doing things in a more efficient or imaginative way. You only need to think of the evolution of stuff we take for granted - from a piece of toast being made by sticking a piece of bread into an open fire, to today's pop-up timeable toaster. We don't look upon this as anything very special in terms of technology, but I'm far happier using it than having to riddle out last night's grate, set up a new fire, wait for it to get going and then settle in before getting out my toasting fork and holding a bit of bread to it (remembering to reverse it, of course, to do both sides), all just to get a bit of brekkie. :lol:
No thing will make anyone happier, per se, Marble, in my experience. You have to develop a mindset that doesn't depend on externals to bring you whatever happiness means. The Industrial Revolution didn't necessarily bring happiness in its wake, as it meant that instead of being worked to an early grave in agricultural pursuits, another set of society could be worked to an early grave in industrial endeavours. But, in the long, long term, we would still all be shoving our horses between shafts if the IR never happened, and living by candle-light, cooking over wood fires, and shuffling about in clogs. The IR was the foundation sire of today's constantly-evolving technology, but its purpose was to speed up production, and thus enhance profits, not to bring the concept of happiness to the people - and regardless of how it's marketed, that's what it's all about today.
Not everything that happens initially brings 'happiness' to those involved with its inception, nor is there any reason why it should. What it might do, though, is by providing a new area of work opportunities, is to create many more chances for new ways of thinking and thus doing things in a more efficient or imaginative way. You only need to think of the evolution of stuff we take for granted - from a piece of toast being made by sticking a piece of bread into an open fire, to today's pop-up timeable toaster. We don't look upon this as anything very special in terms of technology, but I'm far happier using it than having to riddle out last night's grate, set up a new fire, wait for it to get going and then settle in before getting out my toasting fork and holding a bit of bread to it (remembering to reverse it, of course, to do both sides), all just to get a bit of brekkie. :lol:
Maybe the problem isn't unhappiness, but living in a society where we expect to feel happy all the time and also being made to feel that buying certain goods will bring about that happiness? Problem would be solved if more people were like me; eternally wallowing in pessimism?
trudij
Senior Jockey
Or like me - spending a large proportion of my time on my own little planet....
Reminds me of a scene in The Sopranos where Tony asks a Russian prostitute he is sleeping with why she is always so happy/positive.She replies that people in the west expect their lives to be perfect and can't deal with things going wrong.
I don't think 'the West' needs to keep getting beaten with a stick all the time. Who wouldn't prefer a life of happiness to one of pain, terror, repression, poverty or hunger? :blink: You'd have to be darn perverse to want it like that!
It's 'the West' which has done the most to try to alleviate many of the terrible conditions the rest of the world still unnecessarily suffers. Think about how 'the West' developed vaccines, medical treatments, schooling for all, the concept of basic human rights, good agricultural practice, hygiene, veterinary care, and some rather other important features like indoor plumbing, clean water, and sewage treatment... !
There are still countries where the inhabitants don't enjoy such developments, mostly because their governments are corrupt and, while they may have enjoyed a start with 'westernized' concepts, many of these have been crushed by tribal or religious repression, reducing millions of people to beyond poverty and hunger to... death. Think of what Communism under the Beloved Leader, Mao Tse-Tung, did for China. It wrecked the agrarian system at the same time it decimated its educational one, and killed off an estimated 45,000,000 people during its imbecilic, megalomaniacal 'Great Leap Forward'. I imagine that life for the majority of Chinese then was hideous, and as far from happiness as it is possible to be. And now, by adopting one of the largest elements of 'the West' - capitalism - it is becoming happy! :lol: It is seeing an enormous surge in entrepreneurialism, bringing vast amounts of work and increasingly good infrastructures and improvements (in community health and schooling) now rolling out to the impoverished and sickly rural areas. It'll take credit for itself, not 'the West', for all these improvements in living conditions, of course, but who cares?
I think we should have a right to some happiness in our lives - I don't see the point of life without it. Some people love rolling around in negativity, spreading toxic waves of bad cheer, which is surely a perverse way of living? Most of us have had our share of bereavements, ailments, accidents, and some of society has survived some singularly dreadful events. So why, in the face of it all, haven't we just, lemming-like, held hands and jumped off cliffs together? Because there is still often the happiness, throughout the suffering, brought perhaps by another's love and support, or just the hope that happiness will, one day, return to make life more bearable? It is the loss of happiness in life, through whatever means, that is the cause of much mental illness and despair, sometimes to the point of suicide. I don't think you can overrate its importance!
(You could, of course, read 'contentment' for happiness, if you like, although that to my mind is just another way of saying you're happy with your lot!)
It's 'the West' which has done the most to try to alleviate many of the terrible conditions the rest of the world still unnecessarily suffers. Think about how 'the West' developed vaccines, medical treatments, schooling for all, the concept of basic human rights, good agricultural practice, hygiene, veterinary care, and some rather other important features like indoor plumbing, clean water, and sewage treatment... !
There are still countries where the inhabitants don't enjoy such developments, mostly because their governments are corrupt and, while they may have enjoyed a start with 'westernized' concepts, many of these have been crushed by tribal or religious repression, reducing millions of people to beyond poverty and hunger to... death. Think of what Communism under the Beloved Leader, Mao Tse-Tung, did for China. It wrecked the agrarian system at the same time it decimated its educational one, and killed off an estimated 45,000,000 people during its imbecilic, megalomaniacal 'Great Leap Forward'. I imagine that life for the majority of Chinese then was hideous, and as far from happiness as it is possible to be. And now, by adopting one of the largest elements of 'the West' - capitalism - it is becoming happy! :lol: It is seeing an enormous surge in entrepreneurialism, bringing vast amounts of work and increasingly good infrastructures and improvements (in community health and schooling) now rolling out to the impoverished and sickly rural areas. It'll take credit for itself, not 'the West', for all these improvements in living conditions, of course, but who cares?
I think we should have a right to some happiness in our lives - I don't see the point of life without it. Some people love rolling around in negativity, spreading toxic waves of bad cheer, which is surely a perverse way of living? Most of us have had our share of bereavements, ailments, accidents, and some of society has survived some singularly dreadful events. So why, in the face of it all, haven't we just, lemming-like, held hands and jumped off cliffs together? Because there is still often the happiness, throughout the suffering, brought perhaps by another's love and support, or just the hope that happiness will, one day, return to make life more bearable? It is the loss of happiness in life, through whatever means, that is the cause of much mental illness and despair, sometimes to the point of suicide. I don't think you can overrate its importance!
(You could, of course, read 'contentment' for happiness, if you like, although that to my mind is just another way of saying you're happy with your lot!)
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Too right Krizon. Idiots who seem to think that "the west" is basically unhappy are clearly clueless about other societies. you would have to be pretty thick to believe that life would be "happier" under a repressive religious regime, a inevitably economically catastrophic socialist society, a dictatorship or a hopelessly corrupt shambles
And all this guff about "matieralism" (as if it only exists here), well you dont have to be materialistic. There is a choice you know?
Choices which are not available elsewhere
And all this guff about "matieralism" (as if it only exists here), well you dont have to be materialistic. There is a choice you know?
Choices which are not available elsewhere
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M
Marble
Guest
Well i am still trying to master the 'happyness thing'. My mother has always told me what makes a person happy is helping or doing things for other people, whether giving your dogs a good walk or helping family/friends, and there may be a spiritual aspect to it aswell in the sense of the inner being. Its a good question that is posed here though isn't it, about happyness. For example. When death is a normal occurence why do people need to see councillors. I'm sure i will as well one day but by point is why do we in this day age try to mediate or medicate natural emotions?
M
Marble
Guest
Well my mother has always told me what makes a person happy is helping or doing things for other people, whether giving your dogs a good walk or helping family/friends, and there may be a spiritual aspect to it aswell in the sense of the inner being. Its a good question that is posed here though isn't it, about happyness. For example. When death is a normal occurence why do people need to see councillors. I'm sure i will as well one day but by point is why do we in this day age try to mediate or medicate natural emotions?
Sorry, Luke! I shoulda knowed dat, being how I was watchin da whole odda series an' lovin' it, yanowaddimean? The message is okay, for those who really do have it 'easy'... but do they? Even the most madly rich person in the world loses a parent at some time, might be betrayed in love, might suffer a terribly humiliating fall from dignity or grace. Then no end of misery might overtake them, as they realise that all the gilded palaces in the world won't bring them the warmth of comfort that they then crave.
Marble - ah, the rewards of altruism, right? Vastly overrated! I got the same conditioning off Mommie Dearest, too, and it turned my personality into The Human Doormat for years! I was so unassertive (and 'assertion' shouldn't be allied to 'bumptious' or 'cocky') that I said 'yes, of course' to all sorts of crap that I really didn't want to do, but felt that I should do. Loaned money to pals which I suspected I wouldn't see returned (correct), put up for too long with a leech of a boyfriend/intended future husband (idiotically not realising that at heart he was a conman and thinking that, when he went to jail for 3 years, commuted to 18 months, I couldn't let him down in his time of need - oh, yeah, right); got onto boring committees because I thought I was "needed" (they did perfectly well using someone else later); spent far too long listening to professional moaners with never a good word to say (again, deluding myself that somehow I was helping them - which I was. I was helping them to stay negative by never contradicting their whines and whinges!)....
... I can only offer this: you do something not because you think you should, but because you really, genuinely enjoy it. Anything else is a con, a fraud of the emotions and a lack of trueness to yourself. So what if some people say it makes you selfish? Rather be a bit selfish than lie to yourself, and also at the same time lie to others - I pretended for years that it was a "good thing" to put everyone before myself, so that time and again I got steamrollered into doing things I didn't want to do. It took me into my 30s to learn to say "no", mean it, and find out that people really didn't fall down in a faint if I said it!
Actually, I might have to get a doglet after I've moved. I adore them and miss the cheerful companionship they can bring. Plus, it's big fun meeting other dog people and chatting about mutual pooches. I might try for a rescue Staffy or bullie - anything without slobbery whiskers, because I do love kissing their noses!
Going back to coping with death, it's a bit sad when there don't seem to be friends or family around to support the bereaved at the time. We are supposed to grieve (if we loved the person - if we hated them, we might whip out the bunting), feel sad, cry, get mopey, and so on. But there are some deaths which might put some people beyond the reach of their nearest and dearest - the death of a child, of whatever age, can affect his or her parents very differently, and their ways of coping might be very divisive, rather than bringing them together. The differences might eventually drive them apart - one thinks the other doesn't show enough emotion, the other thinks their partner is over-hysterical and can't stand the raw show of it. It could be then that a neutral influence would be beneficial and allow them to express their feelings, without hurling any criticisms or judgments at either. I do think that's one of the values of counselling - it doesn't come with any emotional baggage, and offers an oasis of calm when emotions have become overheated.
I worked for a few years for Victim Support, and the majority of crime victims didn't want counselling. But it was in a very community-minded area around Stoke-on-Trent, where neighbours had lived next door to each other for decades, gone to school with each other, and worked together. So, for most of the time, they could offer each other good counsel, even in some very distressing cases. What is more of a problem is where someone is living out of the reach of that kind of support - overseas, alone due to their job, or without much in the way of a family. In those sort of cases, there was often a request to have a counsellor visit them, sometimes for a long time, to help them get past not just the need to talk but to deal with the unexpected bureaucracy involved, which can be terribly energy-sapping.
I would always recommend it to anyone concerned that what they wanted to talk about would be repeated by gossipy pals or verbally incontinent family members. Examples are boys thinking they're gay, incest victims, girls thinking they may be lesbian, singletons resentfully looking after dotty parents, the newly-divorced who aren't coming to terms with their situation, kids worried their parents are going to split... there's really an endless list of reasons why people of all ages might want to discuss their personal problems free of any family bias or bigotry. Counselling does serve a very useful purpose in these cases.
Marble - ah, the rewards of altruism, right? Vastly overrated! I got the same conditioning off Mommie Dearest, too, and it turned my personality into The Human Doormat for years! I was so unassertive (and 'assertion' shouldn't be allied to 'bumptious' or 'cocky') that I said 'yes, of course' to all sorts of crap that I really didn't want to do, but felt that I should do. Loaned money to pals which I suspected I wouldn't see returned (correct), put up for too long with a leech of a boyfriend/intended future husband (idiotically not realising that at heart he was a conman and thinking that, when he went to jail for 3 years, commuted to 18 months, I couldn't let him down in his time of need - oh, yeah, right); got onto boring committees because I thought I was "needed" (they did perfectly well using someone else later); spent far too long listening to professional moaners with never a good word to say (again, deluding myself that somehow I was helping them - which I was. I was helping them to stay negative by never contradicting their whines and whinges!)....
... I can only offer this: you do something not because you think you should, but because you really, genuinely enjoy it. Anything else is a con, a fraud of the emotions and a lack of trueness to yourself. So what if some people say it makes you selfish? Rather be a bit selfish than lie to yourself, and also at the same time lie to others - I pretended for years that it was a "good thing" to put everyone before myself, so that time and again I got steamrollered into doing things I didn't want to do. It took me into my 30s to learn to say "no", mean it, and find out that people really didn't fall down in a faint if I said it!
Actually, I might have to get a doglet after I've moved. I adore them and miss the cheerful companionship they can bring. Plus, it's big fun meeting other dog people and chatting about mutual pooches. I might try for a rescue Staffy or bullie - anything without slobbery whiskers, because I do love kissing their noses!
Going back to coping with death, it's a bit sad when there don't seem to be friends or family around to support the bereaved at the time. We are supposed to grieve (if we loved the person - if we hated them, we might whip out the bunting), feel sad, cry, get mopey, and so on. But there are some deaths which might put some people beyond the reach of their nearest and dearest - the death of a child, of whatever age, can affect his or her parents very differently, and their ways of coping might be very divisive, rather than bringing them together. The differences might eventually drive them apart - one thinks the other doesn't show enough emotion, the other thinks their partner is over-hysterical and can't stand the raw show of it. It could be then that a neutral influence would be beneficial and allow them to express their feelings, without hurling any criticisms or judgments at either. I do think that's one of the values of counselling - it doesn't come with any emotional baggage, and offers an oasis of calm when emotions have become overheated.
I worked for a few years for Victim Support, and the majority of crime victims didn't want counselling. But it was in a very community-minded area around Stoke-on-Trent, where neighbours had lived next door to each other for decades, gone to school with each other, and worked together. So, for most of the time, they could offer each other good counsel, even in some very distressing cases. What is more of a problem is where someone is living out of the reach of that kind of support - overseas, alone due to their job, or without much in the way of a family. In those sort of cases, there was often a request to have a counsellor visit them, sometimes for a long time, to help them get past not just the need to talk but to deal with the unexpected bureaucracy involved, which can be terribly energy-sapping.
I would always recommend it to anyone concerned that what they wanted to talk about would be repeated by gossipy pals or verbally incontinent family members. Examples are boys thinking they're gay, incest victims, girls thinking they may be lesbian, singletons resentfully looking after dotty parents, the newly-divorced who aren't coming to terms with their situation, kids worried their parents are going to split... there's really an endless list of reasons why people of all ages might want to discuss their personal problems free of any family bias or bigotry. Counselling does serve a very useful purpose in these cases.
I'm hopefully going to Paris for a few months with same company early this year, so have been looking at this quite a bit:
http://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowForum-g187147-i14-Paris_Ile_de_France.html
http://www.tripadvisor.ie/ShowForum-g187147-i14-Paris_Ile_de_France.html