The Flat

But Yeats is not bred to win races over a mile. Bottom line is the most mundane section of racing at the moment is the sprinting division. So the fastest horses are the least interesting to watch.
 
the mile + middle distance is always where the cream is though Euronymous..the extremes 5/6f & 16f+ tend to be filled by horses that haven't fitted into the middle bracket

the jumps ex flat runner fits in none of the above brackets..they tend to be low class flat racers
 
On Warbler's cue I must wade in and join Grassy.

It's about time you flat boys admitted the Derby should become an official Triumph Hurdle trial. :cool:
 
EC1 said:
By that rationale you could almost poo poo Yeats as just some plodder not fast enough to win a good contest over a mile.

which is exactly what he is isn't he?..why would he not win over a mile?..because he is a plodder..ie has not the speed to do so

jumps horses in the main are selling plate flat horses that like ambling around over twigs

the jumps is basically Great Leighs/Southwell AW standard horses running over obstacles
Click to expand...

This post is so inane and ridiculous I wouldn't know where to start; if I could be arsed, that is.
 
you could come up with inane individual examples of where it isn't true..yes..that would be pointless

in the main..ex flat horses which run over the sticks would struggle to win sellers on the flat

thats why they send them over twigs

if you can't argue your case...don't be so rude either..there is no need

if I am wrong then post to show it..otherwise posts like yours above come across as particulry patronising in the worst possible way

I read many posts on here that I might like to reply to in that manner..but have got the manners to refrain from doing so
 
Agree EC1, take my horse Gio. He is no longer good enough to even compete on the flat unless we throw him in sellers, he showed ability on a couple of occasions but since then, I'll freely admit, he's been dire. Yet he was bred to win a Guineas and Coolmore obviously thought he was capable of something along those lines given what they paid for him.

He's now showing glimmers of ability in selling hurdles around Market Rasen and Uttoxeter. Not where I'd like to spend my afternoons granted but because he's not good enough for the flat, that's the only sphere he can now compete in.
 
without the need to cherry pick

look at the Market Rasen meeting Saturday...twig lovers watching class 1 & 2 races in the main..decent jumps horses yes?

1.35 Maslak

Flat turf record 1/12
Flat AW record 4/15

Now we know that twig lovers hate AW racing more than they do the turf flat stuff...what do we normally hear through the winter?..sand crap..beach racing etc.

So a twig lover will automatically dismiss the AW runs as rubbish...he was an 85 horse on the AW...and won a class 4 handicap on turf

wins a £5k hurdle racing easily

2.05 Katies Tudor

wins a class 2 handicap hurdle here worth £25k

aye..a real class flat racer...ran 4 times on turf..well beaten..won a class 5 mdn on the beach

2.40 Indian Groom
wins a class 2 Novice hurdle here
two runs on the flat...last run was 5/2 in betting and beaten a Grand National type distance

3.15 Always Waining
now then this weren't a bad flat racer...but what happened after an 85+ length beating on the flat...they hoist him up to classy jumps racing where he wins a class 1 chase here

3.55 My Turn Now
we don't know how good a flat horse he was..as he got put straight in those flat races the twig lovers call bumpers...basically flat races for really slow horses

4.30 Mr Wiseman - all jumps

Frascali Park in last..same as above


thats just one meeting

twig lovers chide the AW for being low class fare..but the jumps races here at MR were dominated by these "low class" horses

if same horses had been at Lingfield and not MR..twiglovers would have been moaning about low grade sand fare


it's all a bit silly isn't it????????????????

I love the lot mesen...the sticks ain't no classier than the flat thats for sure though
 
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Stan

A lot of what I have said in the post that I got ripped for was a bit tongue in cheek..but has still got truth in it.....WTF SL has gone on one for I don't know...never said a dickie Bird to Grassy for starting the thread though did she?;)

Like I said..I love the whole lot tbh...why twiglovers have to constantly decry the flat is beyond me..even in jest..because it's not all in jest is it?
 
because you don't get failed hurdlers/chasers being changed to the flat because the races are easier to win there

my argument is that all the threads I've read..by twiglovers decrying flat racing.. over the years.. normally start by decrying AW racing during the winter if the NH is called off..they class it as dire stuff...yet much of this dire stuff they decry ...next appears winning decent races over sticks:p...then it's..good old classy jump racing:rolleyes:...and yet they are looking at the same horses..it's an hilarious situation to me.
 
EC1, I can't be bothered since IMO you are deliberately trolling with such a post. Stupid remarks such as

in the main..ex flat horses which run over the sticks would struggle to win sellers on the flat
Click to expand...

just go to prove my point really.

I could argue my case if I could be bothered but I shan't since I believe very much in not feeding the troll.
 
I weren't really trolling SL...I was just replying in the spirit of the thread..which I believed to be reasonably lighthearted...you have read Grassy's opener??..could be deemed as trolling as well then?

Like I said...I love all the codes...but if someone wants to argue that the Flat is in someway inferior then I will put forward views in that same type of manner

it int worth you chewing me ear over yer know :D

:cool:
 
The difference being, EC1, that Grassy is known for being tongue in cheek and his posts read as such, whereas yours don't!

There seems to be an element of seriousness to what you are saying which is why, since I don't think that you could seriously believe what you wrote, I believe you were only after a reaction.

Which, stupidly, I provided!
 
I think you will find that there is an element of truth in what I said..look at Market Rasen..the last decent card we had

The point is though...that all this NH is better than flat..is total b*ll*cks using any criteria anyone wants to use

my serious argument is..I find that people who diss the flat and bull up the jumps..not just Grassy with his tongue in cheek either...are usually spouting the biggest nonsense going...because clearly they are watching sometimes the same horses race..but when it's on sand it's crap..but over sticks it's somehow superior...with the same animals involved

now that is a truly biased, strange mindset..imo
 
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Can someone give Grass and big slap because the needle has got stuck once again ;)


On the other hand, at a certain age people forget what they have just said and tend to repeat themselves. Wet themselves too

Not long before some nurse is shouting at grass ..... WHOS THE PRIME MINISTER?
 
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To clarify.

I hate the Flat because the spectacle is an abomination.

I care not a jot that Jumps horses are generally slower, and I think the argument that this supposedly makes them inferior to Flat horses, is utterly without foundation. If speed is the only measure, then Lyric Fantasy is better than Nijinsky, and Lochsong is worse than some dirt-track quarter-horse that's stabled in Alabammy.

IMO, Flat and Jumps are two entirely seperate sports, which just happen to have horses central to the theme. And I fail to see why, if one likes Jumps racing, that there should be a logical flow/transition to liking the Flat also, as the disciplines are completely different. The transition is no more logical than an Ice Hockey fan enjoying Curling. Curling and Ice Hockey have an ice-rink central to the theme of both, but no-one would suggest that they are remotely the same sport.

EC1, if you think Flat and Jumps are essentially the same sport, then I think you are wrong - they are fundamentally different, imo. You suggest that that this is reflective of a "biased" or "strange" mind-set.................I disagree, for the reasons given above.

This thread wasn't an attempt to troll - merely to find out why people are fascinated with something I'm 100% indifferent about. Some have tried to explain why they enjoy Flat racing, and have argued their case coherently. Others appear to have no real answer, and so fall back on the tired and irrelevant "Jumps horses are slow, so they're shiter" argument, which is more than somewhat missing the point, imo.
 
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How is it absolute fucking bollocks, Euronymous?

Given the Jumps and the Flat are two completely different disciplines, why would there be a logical transition from enjoying one to the other.

If you can offer me a rationale explanation, then fair enough. If you can't, your last post will just make you look like a tit.
 
Steady lads.

Grass, the fact that trainers compete in both disciplines and that some horses do as well, does make your comparison to curling and ice-hockey rather off the mark. Can't see them lovely Scottish lassies in all that padding, carving shite out of each other with 'ockey sticks!!!:eek:

I think it is quite possible for a racing enthusiast to enjoy both codes equally, I would agree that a lot have a preference for one over the other. The defining thing for me getting entertainment out of both codes is class. Bad jump-racing is an awful spectacle, just as racing in the winter months on Fibresand at Southwell is ugly.
 
My apologies, Euro - you caught me on a bad morning.

Colin, I'm not saying that there isn't cross-over, but the actual disciplines couldn't be any more different. The only thing that is common between a 3m steeplechase and a 5f sprint are that horses are the mode of transport used to get from A to B.

And I'm not suggesting that it's not possible to enjoy both codes, because clearly a great many do.

My reason for starting the thread was an attempt to understand why people enjoy the Flat, when I myself cannot see the allure.

To be fair, several posters have given illuminating reasons to articulate their enjoyment of the level - followed by the usual suspect (you know who you are, EC1 :D) trotting out the slow=shite argument.

I suppose the slow=shite argument stands-up if you're primary reason for enjoying horseracing is to see young horses run fast over 'Classic' distances. I prefer my horseracing to be about courage, stamina and agility myself, which is probably why I don't get the Flat in any way, shape or form.
 
For me, I find that I enjoy Jump Racing so much, that it takes away from the spectacle when horses arent jumping obstacles. Its each to their own but for me I enjoy jump racing so much it takes away from any enjoyment i can derive when its on the level

Liking it to curling and ice hockey is a bit extreme. A better example would be rugby league and union.Both while played with the same ball are different codes. League leads itself to being a more running game with less emphasis on set pieces while union is a more tactical, territory based game. Both codes have their dedicated followers and followers of both collectively
 
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