The Gold Cup 2010

Denman - ran his race in 2009 Gold Cup

2008: Denman beats Neptune Collonges 7L and a shd, all out.
2009: Denman beats Neptune Collonges 8L, all out.

The prosecution rests.

:ninja:
 
neptune would surely have improved in the year gap and also got his way in front in 09 (he also had a better jockey on the first time)
 
Why would Neptune Collonges have made improvement that Denman didn't? He'd had more experience over fences than Denman before the 2008 Cold Cup, and was still more experienced in 2009. If anything, Denman should have been the more progressive of the pair.

Different jockey? Pfft.
 
Not that I'd backed him for this race but it is a shame. I enjoy watching him run as he's always been such a natural over fences, very spring-heeled.

Lovely big ears as well. :)
 
Its a shame he is such a fragile horse. Hopefully PN will get him back to full fitness for next season. Something to look forward to greatly
 
I promised myself not to get involved in another Kauto Star v Denman debate, as it's rather like politics and religion: you can only get so far before you go round in circles.

But...

I think Denman may have been a few pounds below his best last year, though not enough to have altered the result. If something happens this time to change my view, so be it, but on the evidence I have seen thus far, I believe Kauto Star is the better horse, at Cheltenham or anywhere else.

Plus, as well as Neptune Collonges, Halcon Genelardais nine lengths behind Kauto Star in 2008 was something else I had a problem with.
 
I think the best bet for the Gold Cup is Cooldine without the big two, which was 5/2 last night.
 
Denman has made his name winning attention-grabbing handicaps (when all but the flat earthers know that it is big horses - not just good horses - that can carry weight and win) cemented by beating a suspiciously under-par, but incredibly classy Kauto Star.

Kauto Star has won every big prize from 2m to 3m+ and often multiple times.

To hear them talked about in the same breath is an insult to the latter.
 
Cantoris said:
What's the ground going to be on Gold Cup day?? That will decide who wins.
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I can't have it that the ground will make a difference. Like his jumping, Kauto's stamina has got better with age, he handles all types of ground, and Denman has a job on to win under any conditions, imo.
 
I could be a camel racing man and still see the folly in relying on lumps of lead to level the playing field of creatures as unique as race horses. Worse, to take the results at some kind of face value.
 
It's a system that works, and it does bring horses together. Look at Earth Summit's Grand National as the perfect example of this.

Denman would the Hennessy because he ran in it off 174 - so in essence he was ten pounds well in.
 
betsmate said:
Denman has made his name winning attention-grabbing handicaps (when all but the flat earthers know that it is big horses - not just good horses - that can carry weight and win) cemented by beating a suspiciously under-par, but incredibly classy Kauto Star.

Kauto Star has won every big prize from 2m to 3m+ and often multiple times.

To hear them talked about in the same breath is an insult to the latter.
Click to expand...

Fellow flat man here so as I pretty much agree with every word!!!
 
Euronymous said:
It's a system that works, and it does bring horses together. Look at Earth Summit's Grand National as the perfect example of this.
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I think using the a race as unique at the National to prove a generality is tough.

Euronymous said:
Denman would the Hennessy because he ran in it off 174 - so in essence he was ten pounds well in.
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So the actual weight (that may or may not of hampered him as much as it would have hampered his rivals) he carried was ten pounds less than the mythical weight that a man whose job it is crowbar a one-size all system onto diverse beasts thinks - in his opinion - he could carry? It's hardly conclusive.
 
The actual ability to weight carry is one of the things that handicap punters look for. But the point about the Hennessy is that if he'd run off his current mark (182) the likes of Comply or Die, Our Vic, Barbers Shop and Joe Lively would have taken him on with 10st and it's doubtful he'd have won.
 
So based on that, the form shouldn't be held up as such an exceptional achievement as it seems to be. Certainly not in the Kauto Star parish.
 
It was still exceptional, but half a stone or so below the form that Kauto Star showed at Kempton. Fortunately the Gold Cup isn't held there though.
 
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