The Nicky Henderson Thread

Gaz's Way De Solzen said:
See on the front of the RP says that Henderson is considering Ascot for Shishkin, really can't see him wanting to take on Energumene before Cheltenham!
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You have to ask is when did Nicky Henderson start giving the Racing Post exclusive information.

Looks like a "Join our Club" ploy to get idiots to sign up.

Of course Nicky is considering running Shishkin all he waiting for is the wheels to fall off Energugene and he'll run him.

I just find it odd that 6 other racing outlets are talking about how Nicky is struggling to find a race for Jonbon but none mention Shishkin.
 
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Re the ‘struggling to find a race for Jonbon’ claims, the Rossington Main and the Dovecote are both Grade 2 novice hurdles run over the 2m trip.

The former is run at left-handed Haydock, on what is likely to be reasonably testing ground, with the latter run at right-handed Kempton, on ground which is ordinarly right in the sweet-spot. They therefore offer two slightly different types of test, providing a degree of choice to any trainer inclined to find a January/February prep race for a Supreme Novices candidate.

If I can find these events in the Pattern after a simple search, you really have to wonder why it seems to beyond the combined wit of Henderson and Frank Berry to identify them.
 
Kempton is that not run in late Feb about 2 weeks before the Festival......if so considering the fact the Supreme is race 1 on day 1 he'd have to be mad to go there

Haydock is more often run on very heavy ground than not but when did Nicky discount the Rossington?

We are to man thinking Constitution Hill will hack up on Saturday but there is no guarantee he will and even if he does it does not mean he'll ever win again.
Only takes one horse to fokc your best laid plans up.

Classic example of how uncertain racing is....lI was looking back at Aintree 2018 when Nicky kicked in 5 winners and became Champion Trainer again.

L'Ami Serge and Might Bite both won grade 1's and were sueperstars of the day..Neither ever won another race.

The point is supertars today can become the most unreliable horses the next.

So making sure Nicky find the right 2m Hurdle for Jonbon plays heavily on his mind. He has to find the right race at the right time on the right course and the right going.

Second guessing Nicky Henderson is taboo, he lives and breaths the game and knows every up and coming possibility for Jonbon make no mistake about that,
 
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Dovecote is run on 11th February so a full month before the Festival.

As far as I know, Nicky hasn’t ruled anything in or out. I was merely commenting on the claim that he was struggling to find race for Jonbon, which patently isn’t the case.

He may not care for the ground, the track, or the alingment of the planets on the day these races are run……but the races are there.
 
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I think that you're forgetting one simple thing Grassy.

Nicky has dozens of horses belonging to may different owners which he will be trying to place that could run in an ordinary novice not just Jonbon

For example how do we know the owners of Wiseguy I am Maximus or whatever haven't been told that is where their horse will run next.

If life was so simple:blink:
 
Grasshopper said:
Re the ‘struggling to find a race for Jonbon’ claims, the Rossington Main and the Dovecote are both Grade 2 novice hurdles run over the 2m trip.

The former is run at left-handed Haydock, on what is likely to be reasonably testing ground, with the latter run at right-handed Kempton, on ground which is ordinarly right in the sweet-spot. They therefore offer two slightly different types of test, providing a degree of choice to any trainer inclined to find a January/February prep race for a Supreme Novices candidate.

If I can find these events in the Pattern after a simple search, you really have to wonder why it seems to beyond the combined wit of Henderson and Frank Berry to identify them.
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I do think 'struggling to find the right race' is a much-overused exaggeration for 'mulling over options'. As far as the media go, the former has more impact on readers' subconscious than the latter.
 
Tanlic said:
I think that you're forgetting one simple thing Grassy.

Nicky has dozens of horses belonging to may different owners which he will be trying to place that could run in an ordinary novice not just Jonbon

For example how do we know the owners of Wiseguy I am Maximus or whatever haven't been told that is where their horse will run next.

If life was so simple:blink:
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This has no relevance to the stated issue, Fist.

I've identified two races that Jonbon could run in (and there are probably several others he could run in under a penalty).

It matters not a jot whether there are other horses in the yard Henderson has pencilled-in for the Rossington Main or the Dovecote. These are still legit targets for Jonbon, and not running him in either would be down to trainer choice/preference, and not the claimed lack of opportunity.
 
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Would JP have a say where Jonbon runs?

I think Jonbon will have a leg stretch on the gallops at Newbury before Cheltenham.
 
Double J said:
Would JP have a say where Jonbon runs?

I think Jonbon will have a leg stretch on the gallops at Newbury before Cheltenham.
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I would imagine so. I can't imagine Henderson would have run so many of JPs novices in the Betfair Hurdle, if the choice was solely down to him.

Lamentably, I suspect you're right regarding the racecourse gallop.
 
I have just read (again) that the great Arkle ran in 26 chases over four years. Wonder what that would look like today - be lucky to have been put out half as many times I reckon.
 
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Tanlic said:
You have to ask is when did Nicky Henderson start giving the Racing Post exclusive information.

Looks like a "Join our Club" ploy to get idiots to sign up.

Of course Nicky is considering running Shishkin all he waiting for is the wheels to fall off Energugene and he'll run him.

I just find it odd that 6 other racing outlets are talking about how Nicky is struggling to find a race for Jonbon but none mention Shishkin.
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That has nothing on yesterday’s RP headline Fist; “ Snowden not afraid of tackling sport's newest superstar in Tolworth”

When referring to the “superstar” who’s won a class 3 novice hurdle.

Of course he looked good but although it’s very early days in 2022, you’ll do well to read a lazier, more hyperbolic headline the rest of the year.
 
wilsonl said:
......although it’s very early days in 2022, you’ll do well to read a lazier, more hyperbolic headline the rest of the year.
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See my link in the 'Racing Post' thread, Lee. David Jennings has knocked it out the park.
 
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wilsonl said:
Heaven forbid he’d run two of his horses for different owners against each other pre Cheltenham Fist.
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So If you had a horse that was a stone or more inferior to Jonbon and Nicky said he wanted to run him in the same race but he'd be tailed off you'd be happy would you?
 
Tanlic said:
So If you had a horse that was a stone or more inferior to Jonbon and Nicky said he wanted to run him in the same race but he'd be tailed off you'd be happy would you?
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Pootling around 30L shy of Jonbon sounds like a great way of getting a decent handicap mark for the inferior horse if you ask me.

Besides, as per previous post, Nicky isn't saying he is trying to avoid an ownership clash. He is saying he can't find a race for Jonbon to run in, and that patently isn't the case. Stick to the point.
 
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Of course not but you’re still missing the point. Nicky can’t not run Jonbon because he’ll hurt the feelings of other owners when their horse gets thumped by him and then moan about there being no suitable opportunities for him.

The Dovecote is a G2, which despite his undoubted potential is still the highest level at which Jonbon has won.

If Nicky were to think his other horses were likely to be “tailed off” then you have to question why he’d be running them in a G2 in the first place but for argument’s sake, if the owners want to shoot for the stars then they should expect a hefty fall when their optimism outweighs their horse’s ability.
 
wilsonl said:
That has nothing on yesterday’s RP headline Fist; “ Snowden not afraid of tackling sport's newest superstar in Tolworth”

When referring to the “superstar” who’s won a class 3 novice hurdle.

Of course he looked good but although it’s very early days in 2022, you’ll do well to read a lazier, more hyperbolic headline the rest of the year.
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It wasn't just that he looked good it was the time of the race. He was 7 or 8 seconds faster than the 2 H'cap hurdles on the same card and he carried more weight than they did.

What was really impressive is Lorcam Murtaugh actuually took a pull on Might I approaching the second last and when he said go he quickly put 5 lengths between himself and Outlaw Peter
Of course he never banked on Constitution Hill going with him and must have thought "what the hell!" when Constitution Hill flew past him and left him for dead.

There wasn't many watching who weren't blow away least of all Nicky Henderson.

However I agree that he is exaggerating when he calls him a Superstar after one race but thats news outlets for you. Their job is to sell racing to the racing public and keep the sheckles coming in.

I could get egg on my face but do you believe for one minute Nicky Henderson is considering taking on Energugene? So to cover their ass they simply play with headlines......example."Kauto Star may meet Denman at Haydock in the Betfair Chase" yes and pigs might fly.
 
Henderson saying the Rossington Main is most likely stop for Jonbon's next race.

I've already sent my 'Finders Fee' letter to JP.
 
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So I heard....JP asked me to tell you he will send you what you have in your head.... Nothing :lol:

Apparently Nicky said in an interview 3 days ago the Rossington and the Contenders were the two races he had in mind for Jonbon
 
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Grasshopper said:
Apparently JP’s racing manager gave a completely contradictory update re Jonbon’s target.
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It's not Frank Berry or Nicky it's the damn media.

Go back to when Frank Berry was quoted by one news outlet as saying he had no odea who would train Jonbon on the very same day as the Racing Post announced the horse was to be trained by Nicky Hnederson
 
It’s not the fu*cking media - it was a direct quote from Frank Berry…..and the story was carried by RP, SL, RUK and ATR. It’s not a guess/put-away by a lone journo, or some random tit posting on Twitter.

Fist, your credibility wanes every time you step in and refuse to accept fault with Henderson or anyone connected to JP, no matter the evidence suggesting the opposite. Better that you just ignore any such posts in future, rather than respond with stuff you’ve just made up.
 
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