Timeform Chasers and Hurdlers

Hamm

At the Start
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From today's Guardian..
Timeform call for an end to water jumps


The respected Timeform organisation have added to the increasing pressure for racing's rulers to dispense with water jumps on Britain's racecourses. Huntingdon last week announced they had become the latest course to scrap what leading jumps trainer Paul Nicholls has dubbed "the worst jump in racing". Timeform say they are in agreement with Nicholls in the introduction to their new Chasers & Hurdlers annual, out today.
"Ditches at water jumps are shallower nowadays, which has helped to reduce the number of injuries, but the obstacle is unfair because it is still something of a trap, as the horses cannot see the ditch on the landing side," state Timeform.
The thorny issue of 48-hour declarations is also given prominence and Nicholls and his fellow trainers are ticked off for their outspoken opposition to its introduction for jump racing. Timeform say "jumping is missing out" on publicity and promotion, especially in evening newspapers, where the readership is "significant".
Racing is also warned about the negative impact of the clampdown on overuse and misuse of the whip by jockeys. "What set out as a perfectly laudable aim to raise riding standards and protect the public image of the sport . . . has on occasions been heavily counter-productive."
Gold Cup winner Denman (180p) is awarded the honour of Horse of the Year in the annual but, controversially, stablemate Kauto Star, whom he beat into second place at Cheltenham, is top-rated overall on 182. "The most sensible conclusion seems to be that Kauto Star simply had an off-day [at Cheltenham], of which his jumping was a symptom. He has form that is in advance of that shown by Denman," argue Timeform
 
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I wonder what Master Minded got?

I'm open to arguments about Denman's rating but can in no way believe Neptune Collonges is the equal or near equal of Kauto Star.
 
Surprised they had the balls to rate KS over Denman. For me KS win in the King George was the single best performance from any horse all season bar maybe Twist Magics win in the Queen Mother.
 
my ratings for the top 4 are:
Denman 185p (GC) 182+ (Hennessy)
Kauto 185+ (KG 07) ( and only bettered in the TCreek 06) 186+
Neptune 180p (GC)

Master Minded 188P (QM)
 
Here's my ratings, FWTW:

Master Minded - 179p (Champion Chase)
Kauto Star - 178 (King George)
Denman - 177 (Gold Cup)
Neptune Collonges - 169 (Gold Cup)

I put VPU on 161 for the Champion Chase and 167 for Aintree
 
Here's my ratings, FWTW:

Master Minded - 179p (Champion Chase)
Kauto Star - 178 (King George)
Denman - 177 (Gold Cup)
Neptune Collonges - 169 (Gold Cup)

I put VPU on 161 for the Champion Chase and 167 for Aintree


How can Kauto Star not have P beside his KG performance when he won without being shown the whip?
 
Because I'm not convinced he can run to a higher mark in the coming season. If anything, it would be a + that would be awarded and not a 'p', and certainly not a large 'P'.

Feel free to post your own ratings any time you want Galileo. I'll be sure to be nippy about them, as soon as you do. ;)
 
Grasshopper,

So, are you saying no-one is free to question your ratings unless they produce their own?
 
Surely 'p's are awarded to unexposed horses, not one's that have run as often as Kauto Star?

Colin,

My understanding is the 'p', 'P' is related more to the performance of the horse in a specific race; unless you are talking about the overall Master rating?

I'm sure someone like DJ can kindly describe the process a lot better :)
 
Not at all. They are up there for debate - to be trashed or agreed with, at people's leisure. And I make no claim to their accuracy, or otherwise - it's merely my interpretation.

And in my own defence, I did answer Galileo's question - I merely found the phrasing somewhat dismissive, hence my response (with added emoticon, to soften the blow).

I hope this reply meets with your approval. Feel free to post your own ratings at any stage.

Relax - I'm just kidding.
 
Not at all. They are up there for debate - to be trashed or agreed with, at people's leisure. And I make no claim to their accuracy, or otherwise - it's merely my interpretation.

And in my own defence, I did answer Galileo's question - I merely found the phrasing somewhat dismissive, hence my response (with added emoticon, to soften the blow).

I hope this reply meets with your approval. Feel free to post your own ratings at any stage.

Relax - I'm just kidding.

The chances of me producing ratings at any point in the next 10 years are pretty slim, I'm just here to question every one else's ;)

And, I wouldn't say Galileo's reply was dismissive - more passionate; I would have said are you out of your mind? ;)

Do you do flat ratings as well?
 
The Chasers & Hurdlers definitions are the one's I utilised for the above ratings, to wit:

'p' - likely to improve
'P' - capable of much better form
 
Do you do flat ratings as well?

Yes I do. Here are my ratings for the past 5 years:

2008 - Mince
2007 - Jeezus, is this not over yet?
2006 - Garbage
2005 - zzzzzzzz
2004 - Roll on October

Maybe Gal was just being passionate - who knows. I'm over it now anyway - I love him like a brother, and I know he feels that.
 
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