Tingle Creek weekend at Sandown

Aughex said:
Simonsig form over fences was beyond of any of his adversaries, including UDS if he had been present........
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Utter bilge.

Arivika Legeonniere (who Fell) apart, the five other runners in Simonsig's Arkle have mustered a total of 3 wins in 68 combined starts since the race - all three of them at 20f or further. That form is not worth a fu*cking carrot.
 
tiggers1972 said:
About Simonsig being the only horse who could beat SS
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Yes, it was Conor Murphy, Henderson's former assistant head lad now training in Kentucky, who told me that so I reckon he should know. At the time he was riding our Simonsig & Finnian's Rainbow daily.


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wilsonl said:
Simonsig doesn't have a single piece of form in the book that puts his form marginally ahead of the rest, let alone way beyond.

Winning the Arkle by a handful of lengths from a horse whose only subsequent victory came in a tin-pot Kilarney chase is way below the form SDG, Special Tiara and Somersby have produced while the Grey's been eating hay.
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Sure he has, the destruction job he did on boxing day 3 years ago puts him ahead of them. That day he left for dead Hinterland who a race before was only 3 lengths behind Captain Conan who in turn gave a proper beating to SDG on his previous start. Then the Arkle where he pulled the arms out of Geraghty and made a major mistake at th top of the hill but still outbattled a very good a good novice Baily Green who previously owned Special Tiara by a dozen lengths. Baily Green tried to stay on with Simonsig who simply destroyed him and only last year began to regain his form when 2nd in P'town CC. Simonsig novice chasing form is above any of those who he'll meet tomorrow. The only question is will he come back to that form? if he does he'll win doing handstands.
 
Kauto Abu said:
Yes, it was Conor Murphy, Henderson's former assistant head lad now training in Kentucky, who told me that so I reckon he should know. At the time he was riding our Simonsig & Finnian's Rainbow daily.


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That's exactly what Ben Pauling said too
 
Grasshopper said:
Utter bilge.

Arivika Legeonniere (who Fell) apart, the five other runners in Simonsig's Arkle have mustered a total of 3 wins in 68 combined starts since the race - all three of them at 20f or further. That form is not worth a fu*cking carrot.
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Takes a fair horse to win an Arkle with a lung infection. Simonsig scoped very dirty the day after.

I seem to recall him demolishing Hinterland by 30-35 lengths at the Kempton Christmas festival before that Arkle win too. He went on to be rated 160 over fences.


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tiggers1972 said:
That's exactly what Ben Pauling said too
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Was it 6 or 7 years he spent as NJH assistant? You'd imagine the 2 of them should know so!!

It wasn't often they'd be let work together because they'd cut each others throats but according to Conor when they did Simon more than held his own with the aeroplane. Simonsig has had far lesser problems to overcome than Sprinter did.


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Grasshopper said:
WTF? You're referencing form that three years old, FFS.
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I'm reading the SAME season form from Simonsig novice chase term where he was way way above SDG & Special Tiara. IF he comes back to that form then I see no reason for not coming home in front of them.
 
Aughex said:
Sure he has, the destruction job he did on boxing day 3 years ago puts him ahead of them. That day he left for dead Hinterland who a race before was only 3 lengths behind Captain Conan who in turn gave a proper beating to SDG on his previous start. Then the Arkle where he pulled the arms out of Geraghty and made a major mistake at th top of the hill but still outbattled a very good a good novice Baily Green who previously owned Special Tiara by a dozen lengths. Baily Green tried to stay on with Simonsig who simply destroyed him and only last year began to regain his form when 2nd in P'town CC. Simonsig novice chasing form is above any of those who he'll meet tomorrow. The only question is will he come back to that form? if he does he'll win doing handstands.
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Collateral form from 3 years ago, the best kind.

but okay... Hinterland was beaten a lot further by Balder Success a few months later at Aintree, when trailing in last of 8. The same Balder Succes who was beaten by Special Tiara only a year ago, with Third Intention way back in third. Third Intention who got closest to Vibrato Valtat at Exeter.....

of course it's completely immaterial but using that basis then Special Tiara comes out best on form, something incidentally which is backed up by his OR and 5/1 is an insult for the horse who won the Celebration here in April with Somersby, Vibrato Valta and Mr Mole well beaten off.

I will be the first to admit I'm wrong if Simonsig proves he has it tomorrow but at the risk of repeating myself; he shouldn't be 3/1 on what he has achieved so far.
 
wilsonl said:
Hinterland was beaten a lot further by Balder Success a few months later at Aintree, when trailing in last of 8.

The same Balder Succes who was beaten by Special Tiara only a year ago, .
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you're doing the same thing as archie, you interpret form of below par efforts and you're mixing different seasons form...
 
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Sire De Grugy wins this, and looks the right bet at 6/1.

Form is temporary...class is permanent, and I fully expect him to smash these lot up.
 
Somersby shouldn't be 12/1 tomorrow either having beaten Special Tiara into second in the champion chase but he is! That's bookmaking.




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marble said:
Sire De Grugy wins this, and looks the right bet at 6/1.

Form is temporary...class is permanent, and I fully expect him to smash these lot up.
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The only thing he'll smash is the fence in front of him. Horse hasn't been able to jump since winning the champion chase 2 seasons ago.


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if anyone thinks Simonsig form is not better than those he meets tomorrow, with the only question mark is if'll return to the same level, I suppose even a 10/1 price wouldn't attract you. For those like me that believe he's the best horse in the race based on his novice season then the question is what price do we get for him to return to that form ? 7/1 looked gold even with UDS in it, now 4/1 would be attractive for me. Good luck to all
 
Aughex said:
you're doing the same thing as archie, you interpret form of below par efforts and you're mixing different seasons form...
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Suggest you contact Phil Smith, who rating the form objectively, has Simonsig on 158 and Special Tiara at 168. I agree with wilsonl that Simonsig could win tomorrow and deserves his Timeform 'P' but on public form​ their respective odds are a nonsense.
 
This is really gonna get under peoples skin here now. David Jennings described Simonsig as the 2nd most talented horse in training behind Faugheen on the Racing Post podcast just now.

He knows. Barry knows. ;)


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but everbody knows by now that Nichols Canyon is a better horse than Faugheen*

*Unless the race is run on the Closutton gallops.

**I'm only joking obviously.
 
archie said:
Suggest you contact Phil Smith, who rating the form objectively, has Simonsig on 158 and Special Tiara at 168. I agree with wilsonl that Simonsig could win tomorrow and deserves his Timeform 'P' but on public form​ their respective odds are a nonsense.
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there's no need, information is public. Simonsig was rated 162 at the end of his novice season, higher than both of Special Tiara and SDG. Simonsig hasn't been seen since but IF he maintains his superiority over them then he'll be rated higher than what Special Tiara and SDG have achieved in the following 2 seasons. That is the price question. If you think Simonsig will maintain his 162 novice rating then its a good laying prospect for you.
 
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