If the person paying the bills needs to land a touch to pay said bills then they shouldn't have a horse in training. They can't afford it.
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
Top Irish trainer facing drugs charges
- Thread starter Aldaniti
- Start date
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
Diamond Geezer
Gone But Not Forgotten
- Joined
- May 2, 2003
- Messages
- 13,884
Discussion on this morning's Luck On Sunday re the Charles Byrne issue, starts about seven minutes in
https://www.racingtv.com/videos/watch/ondemand/100617
https://www.racingtv.com/videos/watch/ondemand/100617
Thanks for the link.
David Walsh going for the big names here - dragging Ted Walsh, Aidan and Willie into things. Don't think its a bad thing myself.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611459720
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1611459720
On December 7, 2014, 13 horses went to the start of the Weatherbys Ireland GSB Chase at Punchestown. After the race, the stewards were not happy with the running of second favourite Foxrock, who came in third, believing the jockey Adrian Heskin had made insufficient effort.
They interviewed Heskin and Foxrock’s trainer Ted Walsh, and had the official veterinary officer, Terry Smith, examine the horse. Smith noticed Foxrock had lost his two front shoes and although he scribbled, “Unusual? not taken off!?” on a notepad, he presumed they had been lost during the race. Crucially, this supported Heskin’s view that something was not right with Foxrock and explained his tender handling of the gelding. Trainer and jockey were cleared of wrongdoing.
Ireland being Ireland, people talked. Rumours circulated and one of the stewards from that day at Punchestown subsequently rewatched a video of the race and footage of the horses in the winner’s enclosure afterwards. There was a shot of Foxrock in which his two front shoes were glinting in the winter sun, after he had run his race.
Unusual as it would have been for the horse to lose two shoes in the race, that had not happened. Those two shoes had gone missing at some point after he returned to the parade ring and before he was examined by Smith. The stewards estimated the total time at seven minutes.
The stewards reopened the case. They accused Ted Walsh of removing or securing the removal of the front shoes from Foxrock “once he was alerted to the stewards’ enquiry into the running and riding of the horse”, and of having “concealed from the Turf Club and misled [its] officers and stewards as to the true circumstances in which the shoes were removed”.
Walsh has long been a successful trainer and achieved his greatest success when Papillon, ridden by his son Ruby, won the 2000 Grand National. Through his TV work with RTE, he has long been Ireland’s most recognisable racing commentator.
On April 18, 2015, four months after the race, the case was reconsidered at the offices of the Turf Club at the Curragh in County Kildare. Nine hours were devoted to taking evidence. Expert witnesses on behalf of the Turf Club talked of the improbability of a horse losing two shoes in the minutes walking from the parade ring to the racecourse stables and then on to the veterinary yard.
Witnesses for the defence, including the highly respected trainers Aidan O’Brien and Willie Mullins, challenged that view. O’Brien said he’d seen horses lose two shoes in similar circumstances “umpteen times” while Mullins insisted a horse could lose two shoes post-race but that it may happen only “one in a hundred times”.
Though they had aggressively pursued this case against one of the biggest names in racing, the authorities still lost. Ted Walsh was cleared of any wrongdoing. It was a major defeat for the Turf Club. Like every other track in Ireland at that time, Punchestown did not have CCTV cameras at its stables, which would have assisted the parties in getting to the bottom of the matter as to how the horse had lost its shoes. One might have thought that the Turf Club would since have taken action to rectify this.
In 2018 the Irish Turf Club became the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (IHRB). That was the year trainer Charles Byrnes and his son Cathal took Viking Hoard to Tramore races. That October day they drove from their County Limerick yard to the Waterford track. They got there in the early afternoon, lodged their horse at the course stables, went for a bite to eat and waited for the race.
Second favourite that morning, Viking Hoard drifted from 4-1 to double those odds. For a horse with decent form, he ran terribly. Five strides after the start, Kevin Brouder used his whip to bustle his horse into action. The jockey kept pushing but the horse could not get up to speed.
They lost touch before halfway and soon the jockey slowed the horse to a walk and took both of them out of their misery. It is customary in Ireland to drug-test the winner of every race but on this occasion, the authorities decided to test Viking Hoard. He tested positive for Acepromazine, a sedative commonly known as ACP, the sample containing one hundred times more than the permitted limit for the drug. The investigation would run for 14 months. The central questions were how the drug got into the horse’s system and who, if anyone, benefited from it not being able to perform.
Information from Betfair, the betting exchange, indicated that someone knew Viking Hoard would not win. One layer made €3,200 (about £2,850) by betting €34,889 that it would lose. Betting patterns for Viking Hoard’s two previous runs at Galway and Sedgefield revealed that the horse was backed to lose in both, €85,279 invested for a €24,000 profit. The IHRB’s chief veterinary officer, Lynn Hillyer, concluded that Viking Hoard had been “nobbled” at Tramore — drugged to lose.
In his evidence, the trainer Byrnes said he had no idea who had got at his horse. He admitted he and his son had left the horse unattended for 20 to 25 minutes in the two hours before the race at Tramore. Whoever had administered the sedative must have done so at this time.
Without CCTV cameras at the stables in Tramore there was no way of checking what third parties had entered Viking Hoard’s box that day. Four years after the lack of CCTV cameras had had an impact on the investigation into Foxrock’s two missing shoes, the same issue in this case would affect the investigation.
The top line on the IHRB website reads: “Protecting the Integrity of Irish Horseracing.” There are 26 racecourses in Ireland and seven years after the Foxrock case, the only track with CCTV cameras at its stables is Leopardstown. The redevelopment of the Curragh cost €81.2 million, €36 million of which came from the taxpayer, and still the €20,000 necessary to install CCTV at its stables was not spent. In the UK, every racecourse is obliged to have CCTV surveillance.
Not only was the IHRB unable to discover who doped Viking Hoard, it was not able to name the layer who gambled €34,889 on the horse losing. It is believed the bet was made in the name of a company in Curacao, a small Caribbean island. Betting investigators believe the individual behind the company has been previously involved in suspicious betting on cricket. There is, however, nothing that links this individual to the connections of Viking Hoard.
Byrnes was given a six-month suspension for leaving his horse unattended in the lead-up to the race. He admitted this while saying that it is not uncommon for horses to be left unattended at racecourse stables. He is appealing against his ban.
Soon, the IHRB’s Referrals Committee will deal with a case arising from the running of the Crowne Plaza Race And Stay Claiming Race at Dundalk last March. Two horses trained by Denis Hogan dominated the betting, Yuften and Tony The Gent. On their official ratings, Yuften was 17lb superior to his stablemate, but the money came before the race for Tony The Gent, who went off favourite.
The gamble succeeded as Tony The Gent beat Yuften. Concerned by Joe Doyle’s riding of Yuften, the Dundalk stewards interviewed both the jockey and trainer and passed the case to the Referrals Committee. A week or so before that Dundalk race the IHRB had done a deal with the British Horseracing Authority that allowed the Irish regulatory body to benefit from the BHA’s better access to betting patterns.
Soon, the IHRB will publish its findings in the Yuften/Tony The Gent case. While all this is going on, the IHRB has signed up to an agreement that gives stud farms a 24-hour advance warning of “unannounced” inspections and has yet to implement a series of new protocols agreed with the Department of Agriculture. In the past, the department was a key player in protecting welfare and integrity in horseracing.
Leading trainer Jim Bolger believes doping is a problem in Irish racing. Many agree with Bolger, though they are reluctant to say so publicly. There is also a belief in Irish racing, held by many in a position to know, that within the past five years a favourite for one of the handicaps at the Cheltenham Festival was stopped.
No sedative was necessary. Just a jockey doing as he was told.
They interviewed Heskin and Foxrock’s trainer Ted Walsh, and had the official veterinary officer, Terry Smith, examine the horse. Smith noticed Foxrock had lost his two front shoes and although he scribbled, “Unusual? not taken off!?” on a notepad, he presumed they had been lost during the race. Crucially, this supported Heskin’s view that something was not right with Foxrock and explained his tender handling of the gelding. Trainer and jockey were cleared of wrongdoing.
Ireland being Ireland, people talked. Rumours circulated and one of the stewards from that day at Punchestown subsequently rewatched a video of the race and footage of the horses in the winner’s enclosure afterwards. There was a shot of Foxrock in which his two front shoes were glinting in the winter sun, after he had run his race.
Unusual as it would have been for the horse to lose two shoes in the race, that had not happened. Those two shoes had gone missing at some point after he returned to the parade ring and before he was examined by Smith. The stewards estimated the total time at seven minutes.
The stewards reopened the case. They accused Ted Walsh of removing or securing the removal of the front shoes from Foxrock “once he was alerted to the stewards’ enquiry into the running and riding of the horse”, and of having “concealed from the Turf Club and misled [its] officers and stewards as to the true circumstances in which the shoes were removed”.
Walsh has long been a successful trainer and achieved his greatest success when Papillon, ridden by his son Ruby, won the 2000 Grand National. Through his TV work with RTE, he has long been Ireland’s most recognisable racing commentator.
On April 18, 2015, four months after the race, the case was reconsidered at the offices of the Turf Club at the Curragh in County Kildare. Nine hours were devoted to taking evidence. Expert witnesses on behalf of the Turf Club talked of the improbability of a horse losing two shoes in the minutes walking from the parade ring to the racecourse stables and then on to the veterinary yard.
Witnesses for the defence, including the highly respected trainers Aidan O’Brien and Willie Mullins, challenged that view. O’Brien said he’d seen horses lose two shoes in similar circumstances “umpteen times” while Mullins insisted a horse could lose two shoes post-race but that it may happen only “one in a hundred times”.
Though they had aggressively pursued this case against one of the biggest names in racing, the authorities still lost. Ted Walsh was cleared of any wrongdoing. It was a major defeat for the Turf Club. Like every other track in Ireland at that time, Punchestown did not have CCTV cameras at its stables, which would have assisted the parties in getting to the bottom of the matter as to how the horse had lost its shoes. One might have thought that the Turf Club would since have taken action to rectify this.
In 2018 the Irish Turf Club became the Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board (IHRB). That was the year trainer Charles Byrnes and his son Cathal took Viking Hoard to Tramore races. That October day they drove from their County Limerick yard to the Waterford track. They got there in the early afternoon, lodged their horse at the course stables, went for a bite to eat and waited for the race.
Second favourite that morning, Viking Hoard drifted from 4-1 to double those odds. For a horse with decent form, he ran terribly. Five strides after the start, Kevin Brouder used his whip to bustle his horse into action. The jockey kept pushing but the horse could not get up to speed.
They lost touch before halfway and soon the jockey slowed the horse to a walk and took both of them out of their misery. It is customary in Ireland to drug-test the winner of every race but on this occasion, the authorities decided to test Viking Hoard. He tested positive for Acepromazine, a sedative commonly known as ACP, the sample containing one hundred times more than the permitted limit for the drug. The investigation would run for 14 months. The central questions were how the drug got into the horse’s system and who, if anyone, benefited from it not being able to perform.
Information from Betfair, the betting exchange, indicated that someone knew Viking Hoard would not win. One layer made €3,200 (about £2,850) by betting €34,889 that it would lose. Betting patterns for Viking Hoard’s two previous runs at Galway and Sedgefield revealed that the horse was backed to lose in both, €85,279 invested for a €24,000 profit. The IHRB’s chief veterinary officer, Lynn Hillyer, concluded that Viking Hoard had been “nobbled” at Tramore — drugged to lose.
In his evidence, the trainer Byrnes said he had no idea who had got at his horse. He admitted he and his son had left the horse unattended for 20 to 25 minutes in the two hours before the race at Tramore. Whoever had administered the sedative must have done so at this time.
Without CCTV cameras at the stables in Tramore there was no way of checking what third parties had entered Viking Hoard’s box that day. Four years after the lack of CCTV cameras had had an impact on the investigation into Foxrock’s two missing shoes, the same issue in this case would affect the investigation.
The top line on the IHRB website reads: “Protecting the Integrity of Irish Horseracing.” There are 26 racecourses in Ireland and seven years after the Foxrock case, the only track with CCTV cameras at its stables is Leopardstown. The redevelopment of the Curragh cost €81.2 million, €36 million of which came from the taxpayer, and still the €20,000 necessary to install CCTV at its stables was not spent. In the UK, every racecourse is obliged to have CCTV surveillance.
Not only was the IHRB unable to discover who doped Viking Hoard, it was not able to name the layer who gambled €34,889 on the horse losing. It is believed the bet was made in the name of a company in Curacao, a small Caribbean island. Betting investigators believe the individual behind the company has been previously involved in suspicious betting on cricket. There is, however, nothing that links this individual to the connections of Viking Hoard.
Byrnes was given a six-month suspension for leaving his horse unattended in the lead-up to the race. He admitted this while saying that it is not uncommon for horses to be left unattended at racecourse stables. He is appealing against his ban.
Soon, the IHRB’s Referrals Committee will deal with a case arising from the running of the Crowne Plaza Race And Stay Claiming Race at Dundalk last March. Two horses trained by Denis Hogan dominated the betting, Yuften and Tony The Gent. On their official ratings, Yuften was 17lb superior to his stablemate, but the money came before the race for Tony The Gent, who went off favourite.
The gamble succeeded as Tony The Gent beat Yuften. Concerned by Joe Doyle’s riding of Yuften, the Dundalk stewards interviewed both the jockey and trainer and passed the case to the Referrals Committee. A week or so before that Dundalk race the IHRB had done a deal with the British Horseracing Authority that allowed the Irish regulatory body to benefit from the BHA’s better access to betting patterns.
Soon, the IHRB will publish its findings in the Yuften/Tony The Gent case. While all this is going on, the IHRB has signed up to an agreement that gives stud farms a 24-hour advance warning of “unannounced” inspections and has yet to implement a series of new protocols agreed with the Department of Agriculture. In the past, the department was a key player in protecting welfare and integrity in horseracing.
Leading trainer Jim Bolger believes doping is a problem in Irish racing. Many agree with Bolger, though they are reluctant to say so publicly. There is also a belief in Irish racing, held by many in a position to know, that within the past five years a favourite for one of the handicaps at the Cheltenham Festival was stopped.
No sedative was necessary. Just a jockey doing as he was told.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,712
I'd love to know which horse. I could have drawn up a list of possibles if I hadn't already binned my older form stuff in a clear out last summer.
redundant pal
Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2015
- Messages
- 244
All this does is betray Walsh's ignorance of his subject matter.
The cursory reference to a favourite getting stopped at Cheltenham following Bolger's doping allegations is a non-sequitur.
Furthermore, Bolger has a long-standing grievance with the Turf Club which he chooses to omit.
Both he and Kimmage have nothing, and nobody is going to break ranks even if there is anything there.
The cursory reference to a favourite getting stopped at Cheltenham following Bolger's doping allegations is a non-sequitur.
Furthermore, Bolger has a long-standing grievance with the Turf Club which he chooses to omit.
Both he and Kimmage have nothing, and nobody is going to break ranks even if there is anything there.
redundant pal
Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 3, 2015
- Messages
- 244
Yes, and it certainly shows in Kimmage's piece today,
"..Do you find you can be critical of the HRI and others? Or do you have to suck it up?”
When you can't differentiate between HRI and the IHRB who is tasked with the integrity of the sport, which is what you're choosing to impugn Paul.
Jim Bolger shooting his mouth off is all they have, and like I said he always has been critical of them.
"..Do you find you can be critical of the HRI and others? Or do you have to suck it up?”
When you can't differentiate between HRI and the IHRB who is tasked with the integrity of the sport, which is what you're choosing to impugn Paul.
Jim Bolger shooting his mouth off is all they have, and like I said he always has been critical of them.
Walsh would.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,712
The thing is, I could probably identify at least one favourite every day of the week that is stopped by the jockey.
The implication that one favourite at Cheltenham in five years might have been stopped is laughable.
Leave At Dawn
Last edited:
Beef or Salmon
Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,052
Leave at Dawn??
Thanks. It's been a long day...
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,712
Without seeing the replay, I'd have thought there would have been more obvious candidates than that but one of the owner's other horses was very unlucky in running late on. I couldn't say with any certainty that it should have won but it was unlucky in running.
Then again, RJ was riding it...
Then again, RJ was riding it...
Beef or Salmon
Rookie
- Joined
- Sep 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,052
I have to say that a claim like that sounds like bollo* - its vague enough not to cast any aspertions thus no potential actions against the author, but still the insinuation can be enough - throw enough sh*t and some it will stick, if he had any proof whatsoever or if any proof existed why has there not been an investigation? It very much has a feel of pub talk that grew legs and ended up being repeated as fact, that or a complete figment of the authors imagination.
Did the BHA or whoever in the UK have access to betting patterns back then?
Did the BHA or whoever in the UK have access to betting patterns back then?
That's pretty much spot on. The last paragraph of that article is the strangest thing I've seen written about horse racing.
Maxbet
Journeyman
- Joined
- Dec 31, 2013
- Messages
- 2,046
The bookmakers have for a long time made betting patterns available if they suspected foul play...
I think it was Silvino Francisco that was arrested in 1986 for alleged match-fixing (big bets on frame results) nothing stuck, but plenty of other players have served bans and suspensions...
Last edited:
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,712
I managed to find a recording of the race in question and it's hard to make a case of obvious stopping. There have been far more credible cases.
That paragraph also caught my attention. I emailed the article to the brother yesterday evening, highlighting it.
His response (a dig at the writer, rather than the situation, I think):
That paragraph also caught my attention. I emailed the article to the brother yesterday evening, highlighting it.
His response (a dig at the writer, rather than the situation, I think):
Last edited:
In terms of performance enhancing drugs in racing generally, the following factors would give me reason to think there is/may be a problem.
1) testing is of a poor standard relative to France. See the gain feeds incident amongst others.
2) it is hard for trainers to make it pay, so I could easily see how some could resort to PEDs to get results and keep people in a job etc.
3) there is a general acceptance of various forms of cheating/not running horses on merit etc. While PEDs is a big jump from getting a horse handicapped, there is an acceptance in the sport of behaviour that would be more frowned upon in other sports.
4) regulators often seem very quick to accept trainers blaming others or circumstances when a horse tests positive. Perhaps this is because this is actually the case, but I do wonder....
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
1) testing is of a poor standard relative to France. See the gain feeds incident amongst others.
2) it is hard for trainers to make it pay, so I could easily see how some could resort to PEDs to get results and keep people in a job etc.
3) there is a general acceptance of various forms of cheating/not running horses on merit etc. While PEDs is a big jump from getting a horse handicapped, there is an acceptance in the sport of behaviour that would be more frowned upon in other sports.
4) regulators often seem very quick to accept trainers blaming others or circumstances when a horse tests positive. Perhaps this is because this is actually the case, but I do wonder....
Sent from my SM-J415FN using Tapatalk
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,712
Wherever money is involved, there's a strong chance cheating of some sort or another is involved.
I've long suspected drugs are being used in racing but probably not anywhere near as much now as in the 60s and 70s.
I don't really think they need to use drugs nowadays. Training has become so scientific they only need to alter one aspect of a regime to affect performances (usually negatively, I'd reckon, to get them handicapped) although the co-operation of willing jockeys is often obvious too.
Another of my favourite [conspiracy] theories
is that young jockeys coming through the ranks have their careers hijacked by crooks. The jockeys might just have finished their apprenticeship and be struggling to break into the bigger time so they are ripe for corruption. A wee bung to delay a challenge by half a furlong, or go wide round the bend, might pay them more than the winning percentage in a small race and, effectively, help keep the wolves from the door. They end up with the reputation of 'journeyman', jocked up on no-hopers and unfit horses looking to have their mark manipulated. They don't need to stop these horses. The horses stop themselves.
But the sport needs them, I suppose. You can't have champions without mediocrity further down the ranks.
Going off on a tangent, I watched the Lance Armstrong programme last night. It was clear that anybody who wanted to be anybody in cycling had to do doping of some sort. He ended up under the 'care' of Michele Ferrari (was that his name?) who went by the mantra 'all you need are red blood cells'. He was probably cycling's Alberto Salazar long before Salazar became athletics' Michele Ferrari.
I also suspect EPO and blood-boosting were in common use in racing going back to the sixties but probably not so much now, or at least however it's done now is done in some 'scientifically natural' way so as to be perfectly legal.
My old local [now retired] bookie used to ride in the Tour de France in the 60s. He said they were all on drugs then but nobody thought anything of it
I've mentioned before a Blue Peter progamme on which Fatima Whitbread, who had just broken through to the top ranks, was the special guest. She openly accredited her breakthrough to anabolic steroids, explaining in detail how they worked and, in effect, enhanced her performance (not to mention her beard).
We can look back now and admire the blissful ignorance of it all.
I've long suspected drugs are being used in racing but probably not anywhere near as much now as in the 60s and 70s.
I don't really think they need to use drugs nowadays. Training has become so scientific they only need to alter one aspect of a regime to affect performances (usually negatively, I'd reckon, to get them handicapped) although the co-operation of willing jockeys is often obvious too.
Another of my favourite [conspiracy] theories
is that young jockeys coming through the ranks have their careers hijacked by crooks. The jockeys might just have finished their apprenticeship and be struggling to break into the bigger time so they are ripe for corruption. A wee bung to delay a challenge by half a furlong, or go wide round the bend, might pay them more than the winning percentage in a small race and, effectively, help keep the wolves from the door. They end up with the reputation of 'journeyman', jocked up on no-hopers and unfit horses looking to have their mark manipulated. They don't need to stop these horses. The horses stop themselves.But the sport needs them, I suppose. You can't have champions without mediocrity further down the ranks.
Going off on a tangent, I watched the Lance Armstrong programme last night. It was clear that anybody who wanted to be anybody in cycling had to do doping of some sort. He ended up under the 'care' of Michele Ferrari (was that his name?) who went by the mantra 'all you need are red blood cells'. He was probably cycling's Alberto Salazar long before Salazar became athletics' Michele Ferrari.
I also suspect EPO and blood-boosting were in common use in racing going back to the sixties but probably not so much now, or at least however it's done now is done in some 'scientifically natural' way so as to be perfectly legal.
My old local [now retired] bookie used to ride in the Tour de France in the 60s. He said they were all on drugs then but nobody thought anything of it
I've mentioned before a Blue Peter progamme on which Fatima Whitbread, who had just broken through to the top ranks, was the special guest. She openly accredited her breakthrough to anabolic steroids, explaining in detail how they worked and, in effect, enhanced her performance (not to mention her beard).
We can look back now and admire the blissful ignorance of it all.
barjon
Rookie
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2020
- Messages
- 3,880
Seems to me that if connections are involved doping to stop seems an unlikely option given the other options available. Doping to enhance is a different matter.
I’m reminded of the occasion when a Steward, Lord Cadogan, barked at a trainer “what did you just give that horse?” - “just a sugar lump,” he replied “here, have one and I’ll have one, too”
Giving his instructions to the jockey the trainer said, “Keep up and at the 2 furlong mark give him a kick and let him go. Don’t worry, if anything passes you it’ll be Lord Cadogan or me”
I’m reminded of the occasion when a Steward, Lord Cadogan, barked at a trainer “what did you just give that horse?” - “just a sugar lump,” he replied “here, have one and I’ll have one, too”
Giving his instructions to the jockey the trainer said, “Keep up and at the 2 furlong mark give him a kick and let him go. Don’t worry, if anything passes you it’ll be Lord Cadogan or me”