Tougher tests for teachers

Desert Orchid

Desert Orchid

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I haven't looked into the nitty gritty of the proposals (other than seeing it only seems to apply to England) but this can't be a bad thing. When I was coming through school you needed Higher English, Maths and a foreign language to get on to the B Ed course. I think post-grads were exempt from this requirement but they probably had highers in their disciplines before entering uni.

I have to say, though, the level of English among some teachers is appalling (to me). I've had emails from colleagues (including senior promoted staff) that are shockingly poorly worded, spelled or punctuated.

I think teachers need to set exemplary standards.

I also think there's more chance of attracting a higher calibre of trainee if they paid better wages. They need to be able to earn at the very least the same in a year as a skilled tradesman. Having had a few jobs done at home in the last year, the average skilled tradesman seems to me to be earning over £1000 per week (and for some reason painters & decorators seem to think £300-£500 a day is reasonable).
 
Completely agree with you, DO, re the entry level requirements for teaching being raised.

However, I don't see why trainee teachers should be paid more or the same as a skilled tradesman! They are trainees, not the finished article! Skilled tradesmen will have put in a good many years learning their trade and should be able to achieve due reward accordingly. In fact, that should be actively encouraged, as there are, in my view, too many pseudo academic undergrad courses on offer out there, purely filling time and producing less than employable graduates. We need to respect apprentices and tradesmen/women as the professional folk they are, instead of trying to consistently elevate lawyers, accountants, teachers as 'Professionals' as being a class apart.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Having had a few jobs done at home in the last year, the average skilled tradesman seems to me to be earning over £1000 per week (and for some reason painters & decorators seem to think £300-£500 a day is reasonable).
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you want to get the Yellow Pages out if you're paying that much mate!
 
Songsheet said:
However, I don't see why trainee teachers should be paid more or the same as a skilled tradesman! They are trainees, not the finished article!
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This isn't what I said, though I could maybe have been clearer.

They need to be able to earn at the very least the same in a year as a skilled tradesman.
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When we teachers talk about earnings, we tend to talk top-of-pay-scale figures. When I started it took me 10 years to get to the top of the unpromoted scale. Now it takes six, I think. So a trainee should be able to earn - after 6 years' experience - the same as a tradesman.

Having said that, some of the tradespeople I've employed down the years have had four or five times that amount of experience and still don't seem the finished article! Thank goodness for Which? Local!! I've had some brilliant guys in lately.
 
Feck me!
I'll have some of that £1000 per week, I'm a bloody sight more skilled than any painter or decorator and I can't get half of that without overtime.
 
walsworth said:
Feck me!
I'll have some of that £1000 per week, I'm a bloody sight more skilled than any painter or decorator and I can't get half of that without overtime.
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I've seriously been thinking of trying courses on a trade. I've always loved working with wood so joinery/carpentry would be the obvious shout, but if I may say so myself I've done a brilliant job of some (minor) plastering and painting/staining in recent weeks, which has made me wonder why a tradesman can charge so much.

We have a brilliant plumber. Costs much less than any others we've had to call out and he describes himself as 'cheap as chips', but he's still £20 an hour. I'll happily pay a skilled tradesman £150 a day and I would go to £200 if I thought he was utterly brilliant.

The guy who paints the exterior woodwork on our house consistently quotes just under £600 for the job where others are well into four figures for the same work, and one firm wanted £3500. 'Our' guy is OK but I reckon if I had decent ladders I could do just as good a job. They all said it would take a week to ten days to do but the guy has never taken more than three. The guy who did next door (and who quoted us nearly two grand) was finished in two days.

We recently got a bathroom refitted and went with a Which? Local recommendation. Not the cheapest quote we'd had but not far off it and about a third of other quotes. If he's making a decent living on his prices how much are the others making? I can feel the hackles on my neck rising when trades people turn up to quote me a figure and they're driving big 4x4s. I'm much happier when they drive up in their van in their working gear.
 
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In the middle of having bathroom refitted in the gf's. A mate of mine is doing it and he is well better and well cheaper than the company supplied the bathroom wanted.
 
I was quoted €800 to refit a downpipe that had slipped and become detached from the roof gutter. In the end I leaned out an upstairs window, discovered the pipe was made of fibreglass and could be manipulated with one hand. I was able to slot it back into position in a few seconds.

Second snippet: Here in Brussels it costs about €50 to have a doctor make a house call but any plumber or central heating engineer working in the official economy will charge at least €100.
 
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Grey said:
I was quoted €800 to refit a downpipe that had slipped and become detached from the roof gutter. In the end I leaned out an upstairs window, discovered the pipe was made of fibreglass and could be manipulated with one hand. I was able to slot it back into position in a few seconds.
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Phoned a local firm last year to see if they could find out why we had water pouring down the wall when it rained. Couldn't see the problem from ground level but the guy hopped up his ladder, popped the downpipe back into its housing and refused to take any money for it. Good guy.
 
My mate Korky's pal Don did our en-suite. He merely looked at the cheapest of the three quotes and knocked 25% off.

Two years, two ceiling-holes, one skirting-board, and seven visits later, the leak in the shower was eventually fixed. On the plus side, he was knocking some fi-ine toot in my direction at bargain-basement prices, so it wasn't all bad.

Mrs Grass is still roundly f*cked-off though.

Quite what any of this might be to do with teaching, is lost on me.
 
Grasshopper said:
My mate Korky's pal Don did our en-suite. He merely looked at the cheapest of the three quotes and knocked 25% off.

Two years, two ceiling-holes, one skirting-board, and seven visits later, the leak in the shower was eventually fixed. On the plus side, he was knocking some fi-ine toot in my direction at bargain-basement prices, so it wasn't all bad.

Mrs Grass is still roundly f*cked-off though.

Quite what any of this might be to do with teaching, is lost on me.
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:lol::lol:- another post of the year contender!!
 
If you're willing to pay for the welding gear, goggles, scaffolding and safety harnesses then of course I will.
 
i dont know about trades taht much but i reckon like all self employed (such as myself) its assumed that £300 a day or whatever automatically translates into 80k pa immediately you set up shop

Not a chance. anyone starting out has to network heavily and market a fair bit and it takes a good while. if it was that easy then everyone would be at it. a postcard in the newagents will not have you working 24/7. it will produce **** all

not only that, there isnt sick and holiday pay or paid for inflated pensions

Im hardly ever sick and cant be bothered with holidays and not going to retire (one reason to go this way) until im all over the place and dont know what day it is

very few self employed hit ground running unless they have inherited a business

i know someone is going to say " i know a painter on £1k a day who has been charging that snce leaving school at 16" but a lot are bullshitters too. not many admit they are struggling

doing nicely myself now, but it takes a lot of time and costs a lot in lost income
 
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My brother is a painter and decorator apprentice for firm for 10 years,he used to charge £150 a day just gone into partnership with someone.He calls most in his trade useless or cowboys,he is a perfectionist and would never do a bodge job.Has even offered to do my house for nothing next summer,sometimes i think he is to soft but at least you know you're getting the best.Anyone charging more than £150 a day it's a rip off.
 
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