Training Fees

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bruce_Savage
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What an introduction to the joys of ownership they've just had. Their horse, backed into favourite, was taken out at the first flight of hurdles by another horse diving across it.
 
The College is likely to be very empty tomorrow, and awash with sore heads after an evening's lengthy commiserations!
 
Grey said:
Local Celebrity runs in a maiden hurdle at Cork today in the colours of "TCD Racing Society Club". Presumably the TCD stands for Trinity College Dublin, and it would appear they have leased the horse, because it had been running until now in the colours of the trainer's wife.
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Is this not a bit like the Young ITBA syndicate which Willie trains for too. Horses that are running in his own name and he decides to let these guys have it for free. I'm not sure any winnings go to the racing club. For example, the Young ITBA crew leased the Deegan winner of the Fairyhouse sales race last season, but I doubt they saw much return, nor would I say they had to pay a penny. Some of this is just done for the promotional side, to get young people involved.
 
When Coolmore tried that with Alex Ferguson, for similar promotional purposes, the beetroot one ended up grabbing a couple of breeding shares in Rock Of Gibraltar, but there won't be that complication with jumping horses.
 
Cantoris said:
Is this not a bit like the Young ITBA syndicate which Willie trains for too. Horses that are running in his own name and he decides to let these guys have it for free. I'm not sure any winnings go to the racing club. For example, the Young ITBA crew leased the Deegan winner of the Fairyhouse sales race last season, but I doubt they saw much return, nor would I say they had to pay a penny. Some of this is just done for the promotional side, to get young people involved.
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Interesting, I've sent them an E-Mail regarding their society and I'm half tempted to contact local trainer here Ian Williams for any useful costing information.

You won't get an answer by not asking! I hope he don't mind anyway - seems a lovely man from the RUK Trainer files and I've won a few quid on Aphrodisia down the years :)
 
In regards to leasing horses, Bruce, since even a moderately successful racemare will cost more to keep than she will will probably win in prizemoney, plenty of owners are willing to lease for free to owners who will pay a filly's keep for a season or two.
 
Bruce, if you're Brum way, then Ian would be a very decent trainer to quiz - he's got a lot of multiply-owned horses with him and, of course, some running for his own Ian Williams Racing Club Worcester.
 
krizon said:
There is a bit of admin stuff to get out the way, like registering yourself as the syndicate manager, perhaps finding sponsorship for your silks (colours) - notice how so many jockeys' britches and shirt collars have promotional tags on them - and so on.

If you find you do get a general interest from your target group and aren't sure of how to proceed, you'll find the ROA (Racehorse Owners' Association) tel. 020 71520 200 and Weatherbys (which does all the banking/payment of prize monies, registering of colours, etc.) 01933 440077 very helpful in walking you through the stages of set-up. And, of course, there's this forum!
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Just to follow up (belatedly) on Kri's point here: many on here will already be aware, but if not it might help to know that if you gain sponsorship as an owner - be that by joining a trainer's pre-existing yard sponsorship, the ROA's sponsorship scheme or being sponsored by the pub down the road - once the agreement has been registered with the BHA via Weatherbys, you become eligible to claim back VAT on all your racing-related expenditure. That equates to an average annual saving of around £3.5k per horse.
 
My sodding laptop lost the first, and then the second, attempt (how the ferk did I get the Google toolbar in the middle of it?) to say 'most excellent' point by Cru, which I'd forgotten about. A huge saving there. Doncha love how this forum can find the answer to pretty much most racing-related questions?
 
Regarding training cost in France, the following links may be of interest:

The rates at Maisons-Laffitte seem to be around 20,000[FONT=&quot]€[/FONT] to 30,000[FONT=&quot]€ [/FONT]per annum inclusive of vets' fees, 12,000 to 15,000 per annum in the provinces.
http://fmitchell07.wordpress.com/2010/05/25/costs-of-training-horses-france/

Jonathan Ward's basic training fees at his yard in Senonnes in the Pays de la Loire are 35.00[FONT=&quot]€[/FONT] per day, set of plates 55[FONT=&quot]€[/FONT] to 57.50 [FONT=&quot]€[/FONT] http://www.jjwardracing.com/training_fees.htm
 
French training fees are about the same as the UK, but transport is subsidised so the overall outlay is less. HOWEVER, the prize money is much higher
 
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CJ - any idea if French vets are as expensive as British ones? How about race entry fees - about the same as here? I think one's got to look at like-for-like costs overall. Although the French prize monies are much better than here, is it more difficult to get into races in France? I don't know what their rating system is like, if it's the same as the UK's, for example, and what Classes they go to, do you? What might concern me is having to spend a lot more on buying a French horse (i.e. the initial capital outlay) with no more guarantee of it winning there than one winning here.
 
Race entries are much lower, often free. Vets about the same in Euros as we pay in pounds here. The racing programme is better for young horses there, with more races. However, for older horses there aren't quite so many opportunities.

Don't underestimate the value of the subsidised transport; it can cost almost as much as training fees in England, if your horse races 2 or 3 times in a month at tracks far away from base.
 
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krizon said:
CJ - any idea if French vets are as expensive as British ones? How about race entry fees - about the same as here? I think one's got to look at like-for-like costs overall. Although the French prize monies are much better than here, is it more difficult to get into races in France? I don't know what their rating system is like, if it's the same as the UK's, for example, and what Classes they go to, do you? What might concern me is having to spend a lot more on buying a French horse (i.e. the initial capital outlay) with no more guarantee of it winning there than one winning here.
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Of course if you think French horses are more expensive you can send horses that way too! On the other hand if you race French breds in France they are usually eligible for Owners Premiums which enhanc the already generous prize money by up to 50%
 
Excellent info, CJ, which certainly contributes to the opinion that racing your horse in France is a good idea. Yeah, although I shared the costs on PLACE THE DUCHESS (now retraining for polo!) with a friend, the transport costs were sometimes horrendous, once she left Sussex for Lambourn. Thanks for the input.
 
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