Tut Tut, Have a slap on the wrist...

Gamla Stan

Gamla Stan

At the Start
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
4,337
1st February 2010 at Wolverhampton from the RP race report...

Pipers Piping was given an unsatisfactory ride, with his amateur, who has ridden a winner on the Flat and over fences, appearing to make minimal effort, and his supporters are entitled to feel aggrieved. The gelding lost around five-plus lengths with a slow start (apparently the hood was removed late), but there seemed to beno attempt from James Banks to try and make up the ground, and Paul Howling´s runner became further detached. By the time he reached halfway, he was receiving only minimal assistance, despite still have many lengths to find, and in the straight his rideronce more failed to apply maximum pressure, even failing to get a clear run. He would surely have finished a deal closer had he been given a more vigorous ride, and might have won had he got away on terms.

The Stewards banned James Banks for ten days under Rule (B) 59.4, and in fairness to the jockey he later acknowledged this was not a good ride.

Yesterday at Wolverhampton....

All the attention was on PIPERS PIPING, who had received minimal assistance from an amateur subsequently banned for ten days around here on his previous start, and he duly confirmed himself to be well handicapped, emphasising the unsatisfactory nature of his last performance.

Unlike on his latest outing, he got away from the stalls on terms and, having travelled well just off the pace, he picked up nicely for a thoroughly convincing success. He recorded a time 0.49 seconds quicker than the first division and is clearly a bit better than this level.

Absurd that they continually get away with it. They should have banned the horse for 3 months.
 
You're quite right, the horse should also have been banned for a time.

I suppose the trick was to have an inexperienced rider on board who would take all the blame.
 
What 'trick' would that be, Grey? It was an amateurs' race, so you'd expect inexperience, wouldn't you? The implication that there's been a conspiracy looks desperate, to say the least. Banks may well have ridden 'a winner', but that's hardly a qualification for being a bright rider.
 
Last edited:
krizon said:
What 'trick' would that be, Grey? It was an amateurs' race, so you'd expect inexperience, wouldn't you? The implication that there's been a conspiracy looks desperate, to say the least. Banks may well have ridden 'a winner', but that's hardly a qualification for being a bright rider.
Click to expand...
Jockeys don't have to be bright to make an effort, do they? Mr Banks would have less to lose from a fixed term ban than a popular professional, so the logic holds. There's hardly a conspiracy either, since the ride was found to be unsatisfactory.
 
krizon said:
What 'trick' would that be, Grey? It was an amateurs' race, so you'd expect inexperience, wouldn't you? The implication that there's been a conspiracy looks desperate, to say the least.
Click to expand...

I'd possibly agree with you Kri, were the animal not from a yard which is not of high moral standing on these things.
 
That's the first slur I've heard about Paul Howling, Gamla, in print or not. I'm surprised since I've always thought him a straight arrow, unlike some of the heavier gambling yards. Can you put up some other proven examples of Howling's immorality, just so I'm slightly more convinced that you have more than the easy kick at an amateur going on?

And yes, of course it's conspiratorial, Rory. You're saying the trainer conspired to lose the race by having an amateur give it a crappy ride. Can you explain to me the huge advantage gained by this, please?
 
I mentioned Old Romney on here back in November after he drifted to astronomical marks on the spreads after he was sold left right and centre in the morning.

Some of the Circle bloodstock horses get comedy rides on a regular basis.
 
And that one incident, four months ago, points to an immoral trainer? And what was the result of the BHA's investigation into that appalling lack of integrity, pray tell?
 
krizon said:
And that one incident, four months ago, points to an immoral trainer? And what was the result of the BHA's investigation into that appalling lack of integrity, pray tell?
Click to expand...

Kri, plenty of Howlings drift like an absolute barge on the show and finish tailed after receiving very lame rides.

This case is a perfect example, they got caught but the punishment didn't fit the crime as the horse was allowed to come out again 2 weeks later and win. If the BHA were serious about these things, the horse would have been banned for three months.
 
Tonight at Kempton, the second time within a few weeks...

From the RP:

All About You´s performance prompted the stewards to take a look at his apparenttender ride and they later found his jockey, Michael Stainton, to have failed to take all reasonable and permissible means to have finished closer. Once quizzed the rider said he had been told to drop his mount in and get him settled and when the gap came 2f out he was worried about the horse in front dropping back on him. His trainer Paul Howling backed that up and added the gelding had finished distressed on his previous outing at Lingfield. The stewards ultimately banned Stainton for ten days and alsofined Howling £290 for failing to report his horse had finished distressed last time out.

Surely now is the time to investigate the number of incidents like this from this yard?
 
The "number" is likely to be very low, Gamla, going by the figure of one you came up with when I asked you how many you could think of. I've no particular reason to defend Paul H or any other trainer, especially when so many NH horses are being very tenderly ridden at present (the reason, of course, will be the sticky ground and not wanting to over-exert them), but you seem to have a particular bee in your bonnet about PH. The stewards banned the jockey for a good long period, and fined the trainer. There's no point in investigating what isn't there - the exchanges would've flagged up any unusual patterns by now, if there were patterns to be flagged. It seems that there aren't, so why keep banging this particular drum?
 
Because this is happening too regularly, that is why Cantoris presumably keeps going on about it. A number of incidents have been flagged up in this thread alone, and I'm sure there are more, as I doubt people on the forum keep all their eyes on PH at all times, so something must be done to stop these dodgy rides, dodgy betting patterns and dodgy runs in general. It is getting to a point of absurdity.
 
Paul Howling strikes me as being a very unlucky trainer, he has had 2 jockeys in recent weeks in amateur races that were unable to remove the blindfold in time (Pipers Piping and Desert Hawk) and now this latest incident where again the jockey is deemed completely at fault for All About You not gaining the best possible placing. Perhaps the master of Warren Place should be a little more careful about who he selects to ride his horses in future.
 
davidjohnson said:
Paul Howling strikes me as being a very unlucky trainer, he has had 2 jockeys in recent weeks in amateur races that were unable to remove the blindfold in time (Pipers Piping and Desert Hawk) and now this latest incident where again the jockey is deemed completely at fault for All About You not gaining the best possible placing. Perhaps the master of Warren Place should be a little more careful about who he selects to ride his horses in future.
Click to expand...

:lol:

I think Kri needs to remove the blindfold. :p I have no bone to pick with Howling, I think he can place his horses quite well and is a decent trainer but he has been outright cheating regularly on the AW this Winter in my opinion and I haven't seen any other trainer have so many incidents like this.
 
Simon, it's Gamla Stan, not Cantoris, who bangs on about Howling! And I don't have a blindfold on (pot/kettle?) about him. There's no percentage in it for me to attempt to destroy a trainer's reputation, as you are doing, or to falsely protect it. Yet again you go on about 'so many' incidents, yet if there's no inquiry from the BHA, which is quite capable of launching one (and who knows if behind the scenes they haven't already inquired into any strange betting patterns?), then you really ought to be careful about publicly using words like cheating.

Perhaps Talking Horses' hosts have deep pockets if they get sued by Howling, or perhaps you have? You need evidence beyond what is clearly obvious to all - or else he wouldn't have been fined - to make such strong assertions.
 
I stated that it's my personal opinion that Howling or someone connected with the yard is telling jockeys not to run these horses on their merits. His horses performance have caught the stewards attention now twice this month for the jockeys not making enough effort on the horses. Plus the other blindfold instance which David mentioned. No other trainer's horses have been subject to this post race scrutiny by the on course stewards.

There don't have to be suspcious betting patterns behind questionable runs, they can simply be getting the handicap mark down or guaranteeing better prices for future runs.
 
People have accused jockeys and trainers on here of much worse before now.

Do a keyword search on the Stewards Room section of the BHA website for Howling and see how regularly a runner of his crops up in the enquiries reports.
 
Nice little drift on Tamino for the Axis of Evil in the 19:10 Kempton, be interesting to see whether this will collapse in price or be slowly away and never sighted.
 
Gamla, you just don't geddit, do you? I see Paul Howling pretty much every time his horses run at Lingfield, and his owners, too. Now, I'm certainly NOT going to direct his attention to this site and your remarks, but whether it's your personal opinion or not, your remarks are highly defamatory: you've called him an immoral cheat, and that's quite enough to get this site hammered. You clearly don't realise that there are plenty of people who read this and other racing sites who would be happy to make mischief. If you do realise it, then you're risking TH getting into very hot water.

You might also like to know that it's no defence to say that something is your personal opinion - if it was personal, you wouldn't be making it public, and so often.

As far as I can see, you've breached the rules of this site and you ought to know better than that.
 
Back
Top