When Is A Horse Too Old To Race.

Originally posted by Kathy@Jun 11 2008, 08:27 PM
Well, it's up to you Trudi.

When people use to (and still continue) to twist things I say or said I prefered to correct them in public so that those people reading the forum(s) can make up their own minds.
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Kathy,

I genuinely respect where you're coming from, but it makes more sense for Trudi to do what she's said ~ she's not withholding information and she's not trying to score points. I realise that you feel that people have historically tried to undermine you and you've felt it important to respond in the public domain, but that is a political decision and Trudi shouldn't be made to feel that it's the only justifiable way forward. For what it's worth, there has, imo, been too much airing of dirty laundry here and on other forums which would have been better off unsaid olr dealt with in private.
 
Trudi, thanks for the balanced and reasonable contribution.It sounds like he went out the way he would have chosen to. This was not meant to be the HH thread but it is an issue I have always considered. Everybody must do what they feel is right for their horse. A cardiac study of the thoroughbred from birth to old age would certainly help us to make informed decisions regarding how to proceed with our horses and what the likely outcomes of those decisions are. I'll have a rummage around the net and see what I can come up with.
 
Originally posted by Sheikh@Jun 11 2008, 10:01 PM
Trudi, thanks for the balanced and reasonable contribution.It sounds like he went out the way he would have chosen to. This was not meant to be the HH thread but it is an issue I have always considered. Everybody must do what they feel is right for their horse. A cardiac study of the thoroughbred from birth to old age would certainly help us to make informed decisions regarding how to proceed with our horses and what the likely outcomes of those decisions are. I'll have a rummage around the net and see what I can come up with.
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I hate to continually get involved, but Sheikh has been very fair and not easily riled in this discussion and it's good to see such a potentially emotionally charged issue handled so well. Are you both single norty
 
I am giving my opinion, that's all Rory. Why do I feel I am walking on egg shells on this forum much of the time? shrug::
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy+Jun 11 2008, 10:06 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rorydelargy @ Jun 11 2008, 10:06 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-Sheikh@Jun 11 2008, 10:01 PM
Trudi, thanks for the balanced and reasonable contribution.It sounds like he went out the way he would have chosen to. This was not meant to be the HH thread but it is an issue I have always considered. Everybody must do what they feel is right for their horse. A cardiac study of the thoroughbred from birth to old age would certainly help us to make informed decisions regarding how to proceed with our horses and what the likely outcomes of those decisions are. I'll have a rummage around the net and see what I can come up with.
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I hate to continually get involved, but Sheikh has been very fair and not easily riled in this discussion and it's good to see such a potentially emotionally charged issue handled so well. Are you both single norty [/b][/quote]

Potentially emotionally charged issue.... youve seen my first few posts on JFF then??!!! I was a teensy bit riled..... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

:what: you after a 3some Rory???

:nuts:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


Do please Sheikh - Id be realy interested to read it...(followed by taking it in to work and saying to my bosses "what does this mean???????"!!!)


Or.....

I wonder if i get one of our students to cover it as their thesis?????? :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Jun 11 2008, 10:08 PM
I am giving my opinion, that's all Rory.  Why do I feel I am walking on egg shells on this forum much of the time? shrug::
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Kathy,

I like you; you know I like you and you know I also lke people who you don't get on with. Please do not try to give the impression that I'm trying to give you a hard time. Your last comment does no justice to the realtionship I've had with you for about ten years now. Those who dislike you are regularly made aware of the fact that I stand up for your viewpoint on a regular basis, despite my regard for the people in question. By definition, I am not trying to score points ~ someone once accused me of being incapable of being able to fall out with people (the refernce was to you btw) and I took that as a compliment, although it was otherwise intended. Please, please, don't use me to score points.
 
Originally posted by trudij@Jun 11 2008, 10:12 PM

Potentially emotionally charged issue.... youve seen my first few posts on JFF then??!!! I was a teensy bit riled..... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

:what: you after a 3some Rory???

:nuts:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


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Trudi,

if you've met a fella who wants a threesome with you and another man, the bad news is he's gay. I hate to break this to you, but that's the way it is. Do you know any lady jockeys?
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy@Jun 11 2008, 10:39 PM
someone once accused me of being incapable of being unable to fall out with people
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Erm....surely "capable of being unable to fall out with people" rather than the former??? :D


(or "incapable of being able to fall out with people", if you'd prefer??)
 
Originally posted by Shadow Leader+Jun 11 2008, 10:47 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Shadow Leader @ Jun 11 2008, 10:47 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-rorydelargy@Jun 11 2008, 10:39 PM
someone once accused me of being incapable of being unable to fall out with people
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Erm....surely "capable of being unable to fall out with people" rather than the former??? :D


(or "incapable of being able to fall out with people", if you'd prefer??) [/b][/quote]
Feck off, you old harpy!
 
Rory in shocking male bonded threesome !!!!

I think this thread has somewhat gone away from the actual point Sheikh was trying to make.

I know from having an old horse the dilemma it creates, do u turn it out and hope he enjoys retirement or keep him active, enjoying what he does only for that increased risk something may happen.

don't get me wrong if something happened to my old lad i would be distraught and inconsolable but I've tried roughing him off completely twice and he hates it, much depends on the individual horse Sheikh and whilst I do think some horses on the face of it should be retired, it would cost far too much in time and money to individually screen say every racehorse registered with an owner or trainer over the age of 12.

most trainers love these old horses and they are like pets so I personally believe they get better treated than most. If the horse died racing then i suppose at least he/she died doing something they enjoyed instead of plodding around a field 24/7.

you must remember every horse is different however, every owner who has a horse that old cares for their horse.
 
I always shudder when I remember a conversation I had when I was on a tour of David Elsworths Newmarket yard. I got chatting to an elderly gent who had had many racehorses over the years. When I saw him he didn't have any horses in training so I asked where the horses were.

"In my garden", he replied. "Ahhh, that's nice," I replied. "You must have a big garden".

"No, I had them shot", he said, "as I didn't want anyone else to have them, so they are now buried under my apple trees in my paddock". By the look on his face I could only assume he was serious. :brows:

My blood ran cold. These were apparently healthy horses that had won races for him, that he arranged to have shot as he wouldn't allow them to be rehomed or enjoy a retirement. I couldn't speak to him again after that. Perhaps, it's just me but I felt quite sick.
 
Originally posted by rorydelargy+Jun 11 2008, 09:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (rorydelargy @ Jun 11 2008, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteBegin-Kathy@Jun 11 2008, 10:08 PM
I am giving my opinion, that's all Rory.  Why do I feel I am walking on egg shells on this forum much of the time? shrug::
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Kathy,

I like you; you know I like you and you know I also lke people who you don't get on with. Please do not try to give the impression that I'm trying to give you a hard time. Your last comment does no justice to the realtionship I've had with you for about ten years now. Those who dislike you are regularly made aware of the fact that I stand up for your viewpoint on a regular basis, despite my regard for the people in question. By definition, I am not trying to score points ~ someone once accused me of being incapable of being able to fall out with people (the refernce was to you btw) and I took that as a compliment, although it was otherwise intended. Please, please, don't use me to score points.[/b][/quote]
Rory, I really don't want to be having a discussion about who likes who on forums - it's childish. I really don't give a toss who likes me and who doesn't and I certainly don't need people standing up for my viewpoints when others disagree with me. Your comments are quite bizarre to be honest.
 
I'll have a rummage around for info on threesomes also, I bet that's easier to find norty although I'd have to insist on Rorys suggestion of a female Jockey :D
 
:laughing: at you two !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (and yes, I know a few....)


Im sure this page was longer last night....


Did the man say why hed had the horses put down Kathy - or did you assume it was just because he didnt want anone else to have them? if they were dificult,or had problems,as far as hes concerned hes done right. Personally, I dont see a problem with owners doing what they think is right by their horses - be that going to the sales (unless they know the horse is no good,and been tried again adn again,or a rougue - then that becomes a different kettle of fish- THAT I think is unfair on the horse-not thats it any of my business!!) giving /selling/loaning them to an experienced home or putting them in a rehoming centre(presuming you can get them into one). Sometimes the owner really doesnt want their horse to go to just anyone(no matter how thoroughly checked out they are),the trainer wont/cant help or the horse retires with problems,then they have them put down. If hes got them buried in his garden,that implies to me that he loved them,so there must be more to it than just "oh, theyve finished - shoot them"?? *
For all I love my friends, Ive got an awful lot who really dont understand my thinking about this - none of us are wrong - but I really do think that if an owner decides to have their horse put down, 9 times out of 10 they are being responsible to their horse.Its not an easy decision at any time - and owners shouldnt be slated for it.Its sad, but to me,when youre an owner you have a responsibility to do right by your horse in the immediate future.Racehorses are fast becoming a disposable commodity, and the market is becoming flooded with horses that really shouldnt be there.

*(of course, it could just be that its cheaper to get a digger to build a hole than it is to get them taken away,in which case hes a tight-fisted old git and the horses deserved better!!)
 
Originally posted by Kathy@Jun 11 2008, 10:11 PM
These were apparently healthy horses that had won races for him, that he arranged to have shot as he wouldn't allow them to be rehomed or enjoy a retirement. I couldn't speak to him again after that. Perhaps, it's just me but I felt quite sick.
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I didn't assume anything, Trudi. They were (according to his own words) 4 healthy horses, all under 10 years old that he refused to sell and wouldn't pay for in their retirement. He had them shot and buried in his paddock. I am sure you will come up with a good reason why you feel he may have done this. I couldn't but then we are all allowed to have different view points aren't we.
 
:laughing: oh Kathy - theres no need to get so defensive!!!


And I can - but not knowing the gentleman in question, its really not right to comment.

what you have written there reads completely differently to what you put in the first post - but I still reckon it wasnt likely to be as black and white as you make it out to be. As you didnt speak to him again to ask if there was any reason he didnt want to try to find them homes for their retirements.we shall never know.

If nothing else, there are four (or however many he had) less horses on the market - so another four have good homes, making room for another four (of howerver many!) to be in rehoming centres, and so on.

thinking of homing centres - how is balmathingy doing??Didnt she go to that one at Chard? Hope shes ok.
 
Trudi, which bit don't you understand ? shrug:: He didn't want to let anyone else have them and he didn't want to retire them as it would cost him money. If he wasn't keeping them in training he wanted them to be shot and buried in his paddock. What other information do you need to know? shrug:: If I bump into him again, which I doubt, I will have a list of questions ready for him if like. Let me know by PM what you would like me ask him and I'll get back to you so that you can give me your qualified opinion on why he made this decision.

Balmacara - as I recently put up on Final Furlong - but you must have missed it, is with a new owner (loaned out) and doing well at her dressage and showjumping.
 
NIce spiky response there!!! Why should Trudi have kept tabs on everything you post in every forum??

...and you wonder why people dislike you. Crikey, that's Rory and Trudi, two of the most temperate people I know, whose backs you have put up in 24 hours!!!!!
 
Right, I think this thread is coming to the end of its natural life. Last chance for anyone who has anything constructive to add to the topic at hand, otherwise, please move on.
 
I am going to ignore the majority of this topic, and respond to the heading.

Personally I think its a case by case basis. There is a horse here in Australia at the moment, Odysseus, who at 12 is still very successful in running on the flat. Only one month ago he won first up after a year break.

There was also a sprinter about 4 years back, Bomber Bill who was still running handy races at Group 2 and 3 level at 11 years of age.

Again, each horse is different and they should all be judged as individuals.
 
As some people have said in earlier posts, I think it depends on each individual animal - they will tell you as best they can if and when they've had enough and things such as heart attacks could strike any of them at any time although I do think it it would make looking at possible cardiac changes would make for interesting research.

If I had my own horses particularly an older one I would see it as my resposibility to have it checked over by the vet every so often - possibly before going back into training after a summer/winter break or a lay off through injury, much the same as I would with a riding horse -like an equine MOT I guess! And if the horse 'passed' I'd still bear in mind that something could go wrong at a later date.

I wouldn't expect everyone do it, it's only what I'd consider doing myself.
 
Imagine, I have worried about every horse I have ever owned every time they turn up at the races. I am a bag of nerves - especially when hurdles are involved.

There were a couple of nasty pile ups at Southwell on Tuesday where horses were brought down. Timmy Murphy was involved in one particular nasty incident. Luckily, he is going to be OK.

The thought of any horse losing it's life on a the race track upsets me, but as some have said, a horse can lose it's life at any time and through absolutely no fault of the horse or the jockey. It's one of those risks you take whatever the horses age when they go racing. How many lives are lost on the gallops too. Heart attacks must happen during work and exercise - and who would hold this data - apart from the vet or the yard?

Heart attacks you would think may be more common in older horses but I am not sure if that's the case or not. It would be interesting to see if there is any data held on what percentages of equine fatalities can be allocated to particular age groups to see if there is a pattern. I am not even sure who would hold or even record this type of data.
 
Will He Wish is still going strong at 12, and is rated in the high 80's on the flat. Must be the best 12 year old out there.
 
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