WP Mullins

What I like about him is that he is so very Communicative in interviews. Like all the truly talented he makes it all sound very straightforward and nothing out of the ordinary. Very much like Nichols. They both have had their moments of course but generally what you hear is what you get ( cue all the wannabe cycnics with the whatabouteries ). I like that.

Very popular bloke with British trainers too according to Alan lee in a good piece on him last week
 
His record in the real Championship races at Cheltenham is poor considering the firepower and potential as his disposal. 1 Champion Hurdle, 0 Champion Chases, 0 World Hurdles, 0 Gold Cups.

Compare that with his peers Henderson and Nicholls ...........

35% strike rate is unreal though
 
I wonder what his strike rate is with horses in their first few runs compared to thereafter? He schools the bejaysus out of his horses in the likes of Thurles and that's why some just don't progress. Other trainers might have a longer turn objective. I often think that is why a Mullins bumper horse might be a length up with a furlong to go but wins by ten lengths. Pure strength from doing it around Thurles a few times compared to the horse that might only have been away once.
 
Cantoris said:
I wonder what his strike rate is with horses in their first few runs compared to thereafter? He schools the bejaysus out of his horses in the likes of Thurles and that's why some just don't progress. Other trainers might have a longer turn objective. I often think that is why a Mullins bumper horse might be a length up with a furlong to go but wins by ten lengths. Pure strength from doing it around Thurles a few times compared to the horse that might only have been away once.
Click to expand...

So what you are saying is that he is good at getting his horses ready to run?

I'm afraid I would need empirical comparative data even to begin to entertain your contention that they don't progress.

Respectfully,

Adamant Approach and Florida Pearl.
 
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I'll see your Adamant Approach and Florida Pearl

and raise you:

Scolardy
Holy Orders
Davenport Milenium
Joe Cullen
Assessed
Nobody Told Me
Sadlers Wings
Quatre Heures
Ebazaiyan
Glencove Marina
J'y Vole
Cousin Vinny
Fivefortree
Cooldine
Mikael d'Haguenet
 
Bar the Bull said:
I'll see your Adamant Approach and Florida Pearl

and raise you:

Scolardy
Holy Orders
Davenport Milenium
Joe Cullen
Assessed
Nobody Told Me
Sadlers Wings
Quatre Heures
Ebazaiyan
Glencove Marina
J'y Vole
Cousin Vinny
Fivefortree
Cooldine
Mikael d'Haguenet
Click to expand...



Average stable gross content = 120
Yearly T/0 ~ 25% (dead/useless/retired = (30)
Net content = 90
Ten year total = 900

BtB's failures rate 15 or 1.7%

Naaaawww. doesn't really change my mind.
 
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clivex said:
What I like about him is that he is so very Communicative in interviews. Like all the truly talented he makes it all sound very straightforward and nothing out of the ordinary. Very much like Nichols. They both have had their moments of course but generally what you hear is what you get ( cue all the wannabe cycnics with the whatabouteries ). I like that.

Very popular bloke with British trainers too according to Alan lee in a good piece on him last week
Click to expand...

I think we need to take into account that most of them are bowled the equivalent of six full tosses - bodyline it isn't.

As regards running plans for Cheltenham between Mullins and JP I don't think you could get much worse.
 
Call the Police on Sunday and now Lambro today, horses that should be 5 and 6/1 rags are going off at nearly odds on. Ridiculous how overbet some of his animals are.
 
On The Bridle said:
His record in the real Championship races at Cheltenham is poor considering the firepower and potential as his disposal. 1 Champion Hurdle, 0 Champion Chases, 0 World Hurdles, 0 Gold Cups.

Compare that with his peers Henderson and Nicholls ...........

35% strike rate is unreal though
Click to expand...
Could it be he believes a bird in the hand?............That 35% is a lot of dosh.

He's never been shy at running Hurricane Fly at every opportunity CH or no CH or Thousand Stars for that matter. The latter has picked up a small fortune in win and place money and probably wasn't off a yard half the time. 3/4 million in his lifetime and no doubt will ad to that

Maybe it's not all about about winning Gold Cups and Champion hurdles for him because from a financial point of view he pulls in just as much as they do in a season in prize money without being as dependent on winning the big ones.
 
In a slightly different manner it is quite similar to the m pipe record. Bar and on the bridle are right. It's not just that he has had surprisingly few winners of the championship races but considering all that juvenile fire power, not that many real contenders too. I suspect a few of those names mentioned are in a tescos lasagne now
 
I hope this is a useful comparison of the big three trainers of the present era, Nicky Henderson, Willy Mullins and Paul Nicholls.

Mullins has won more Grade 1 races than the other two, with a one third/two thirds split between open and novice/bumper events. For Henderson the split is 50/50 and for Nicholls it is two thirds/one third:


Grade 1 races won since 1995

Henderson 55 (27 open races, 28 novice/bumper races)
Mullins 103 (36 open including Mares, 67 novice/bumper)
Nicholls 92 (61 open, 31 novice/bumper)



The split is a bit different, though when you break it down between winning horses rather than races won. Half of Henderson's Grade 1 winning horses managed to win in open company, the other half in novice company only, and the split is more or less the same for Mullins's horses. For Nicholls the split is three quarters open, one quarter novice only:

Henderson 15 out of his 30 Grade 1 winning horses only won novice/bumper events
Mullins 22 out of 38
Nicholls 13 out of 32


Maybe part of the explanation is to do with where they source their horses. All three buy horses that have already raced in France, but Nicholls to an even greater extent than the other two. Most young horses have comparatively short careers but these imports are made horses that perhaps have already proven they can stand up to racing.

Of Henderson's 15 winners of open races, 5 made their debut with him, 2 had been with other UK/Irish jump trainers, 2 ran in points, 5 ran in France, 1 came from the flat

The corresponding figures for Mullins and Nicholls were
Mullins 16 6* 1 2 6 1 *one of these started with WPM on the flat

Nicholls 19 4 3 1 10 1
 
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That's all very well and good Grey but we are simple people ....can I summarise that all that good maths type stuff you have concocted goes to support my pre-conceived bias that Mullins knocks the shite out of them as young horses and they don't train on like one would expect....;)
 
Yes...

And stats are interesting but there are grade ones and grade ones of course.

Fact is that for me Nichols ( I live raving about him here, really winds people up..) keeps his horses at their best superbly well and that to me is the mark of an excpetional trainer. More than anything else. Not quite sure I can recall any trainer quite so adept at this.

Another contrary example is King. How many of his last the course? And we all recall M. Pipe.
 
The figures lend some support your argument, Barry, but you should bear in mind that half of Mullins's Grade 1 wins have come in the last four years or so, and therefore quite a few of the horses have not yet moved on to open company (e.g. Champagne Fever, Boston Bob etc etc).

It's a while though since he brought one through to the top ranks of open company whose career he had launched himself. Fiveforthree's 2009 win in the stayers' hurdle at Punchestown is the most recent example I could find. All the rest had their introductions to racing elsewhere. Mind you that would be largely true of Henderson and Nicholls as well.

The figures also show that Nicholls's Grade 1 horses have won an average of 3 such races each, Mullins's 2.5 and Henderson's 2. Nicholls has had the multiple Grade 1 winners Kauto Star, Denman, Big Bucks and Master Minded and as clivex says he has obviously done extremely well with them. The horses boosting Mullins's average over Henderson are Florida Pearl and Hurricane Fly.
 
Good stats though grey

Its good to have people to do these things for you. Well done. You can have the rest of the afternoon off now
 
That was very kind of you, I know you normally expect people to work very long hours.
 
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