Irish Stamp
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Thought the 2/1 under 90,000 Euro's with Hills was an absolute steal Gal. No stallion in this climate will start higher than that.
Sea The Stars - Retirement Announced
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Above is a quote from Jim McGrath - unless one of our forum members has used one of these stallions (not likely!!) it hard to know for sure but I would be amazed if they were the correct prices - I would imagine you could add €50,000 minimum to each of their quoted stud fees.
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Those figures sound right to me - don't forget the myriad of foal deals etc Coolmore do. Fees have dropped like a stone the past two years - the money is simply not there in depth anymore.
As to the perennial ROG v HW argument, I still maintain that even if they'd raced side by side, ROG would have won because he was mentally superior to HW and would have literally eyeballed him out. Horse never won by more than he had to but he was incredibly competitive, something I personally value over almost every other quality in a good racehorse. HW no doubt had talent but he was soft - and it's being passed on. In Korea or somewhere....!!!
And you secretly know I'm right, Aidan...:lol:
As to the perennial ROG v HW argument, I still maintain that even if they'd raced side by side, ROG would have won because he was mentally superior to HW and would have literally eyeballed him out. Horse never won by more than he had to but he was incredibly competitive, something I personally value over almost every other quality in a good racehorse. HW no doubt had talent but he was soft - and it's being passed on. In Korea or somewhere....!!!
And you secretly know I'm right, Aidan...
:lol:
I would have thought the same (esp with Galileo) but Danehill Dancer is the most overpriced stallion in some years. Invincible Spirit runs him a close second.
crazyhorse
At the Start
that thing even made his way into our german forum, amazing what the internet can do for you :blink:
crazyhorse
At the Start
PS: By the way ....
Sea The Stars: The Story of a Perfect RacehorseSean Magee
Sheikh
At the Start
Why do you think that ?
These are the % runners to winners for the last three years 2009-2007.Winners to foals would be better but this gives a good idea. He's operating at a pretty high level .Danehill Dancer 35 38 35. Invincible Spirit stood his first year for €8k which is probably represented by his figures, his mares improved as people realised he was a good thing,35, 31, 28 . Everyone with a good mare wanted a Ouija board, Cape Cross 44,30,23. The excellent Pivotal 46 ,38, 43.One I like, Dalakhani 49,40.
Of the established stallions only Pivotal is comparable with Danehill and Sadlers who where hitting high 30s and low 40% consistently. In 2003 Sadlers hit 45% runners to winners !!
I know the opportunity a stallion gets is important and than the progeny need to go to the right people but if they have the metal they can be noticed.Invincible Spirit is proof of that. 35 winners, 4 stakes winners standing at 8k in his first year!
Isn't Invincible Spirit €50k now, or maybe I'm wrong? The only top class horses he has produced are Fleeting Spirit, and Perhaps Lawman, which suggests better value could be had elsewhere, such as some of the Darley Stallions. I'd agree he produces some nice horses, just think he's a little overpriced.
With regard to Danehill Dancer, I think, in my opinion, he has only produced 2 top class horses, Mastercraftsman, and Choisir. He may well do better in future with the mares he'll receive he hadn't before, but I can't see for the life of me why his fee is private, which indicates close to or over €100k.
With regard to Danehill Dancer, I think, in my opinion, he has only produced 2 top class horses, Mastercraftsman, and Choisir. He may well do better in future with the mares he'll receive he hadn't before, but I can't see for the life of me why his fee is private, which indicates close to or over €100k.
Sheikh
At the Start
Perhaps the prices of stallions in general is too high but they are dropping. I think we should reserve judgement on Invincible spirit untill we see what he produces from the better mares he is getting at 35k and 75k. I would tend to agree re: Danehill Dancer in comparison to other top stallions. There's always better value , Cape Cross was value. Hernando, Singspiel etc
ROG had the achievements, but not the big rating. Hawk Wing ended up with the big rating, but not the achievements. Sea The Stars has both.
Very true.
Harbinger
At the Start
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Presumably his fee is that high simply because it reflects the demand for him. Whilst demand for a first-season sire may be based mostly on hope and hype, Danehill Dancer started out 10 years ago at £4k, so he's clearly earned his way to the top of the tree.
Sheikh
At the Start
The wonderful magical World of the Sales ring has a large part to play in the fee a stallion can command.
Harbinger
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Clearly in this case Danehill Dancer has, as he can apparently attract a full book at that price based solely on his record at stud.
Sheikh
At the Start
Coolmore and other studs support their stock. Coolmore can ensure that DD's and others sell well and regardless of what happens on the track (within reason)Breeders will send their best mares to him. Getting the best mares ensure they sell well and ensure good racing stock. it's self perpetuating, onviously if the stallion is useless it won't work though. It does skew things though.
They can basically charge what they like. Demand will largely drive it. But they can also restrict or increase the availability to any line as they see fit. A fee may also become ‘private’ and may be restricted to certain mares at inflated or discount rates.
Gareth,
Clearly in that case he has, but if you want to take that approach with all topics, there would be nothing left to debate on here.
Harbinger
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Tony Morris wrote a piece about him earlier this season:
http://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/home.sd?story=189890&ac=&todT_id=1255605816.5745
http://www.racingpost.com/bloodstock/home.sd?story=189890&ac=&todT_id=1255605816.5745
I read that at that time, and it's a nice story, none of which I'm disputing in any way. My point, again, is that I believe a fee of circa €100k is crazy for DD when you have the likes of Cape Cross standing for €35k; it doesn't make sense, to me at least.
Cape Cross has produced Ouija Board and Sea The Stars (out of an amazing mare). Bar that I would struggle to name a classy horse of his or another Group 1 winner. He does not get that many (any?) top class two year olds - Danehill Dancer is in a different league to him as a stallion - getting fast two year old winners and classy middle distance types. He is also of course a son of Danehill.
He has had another couple of G1 winners in addition to the two named.
Who are the middle distance types DD has produced?
I'm not knocking him as a stallion, clearly he is very good; my point is he is greatly overpriced, especially in comparison to Cape Cross, and many others. He is never a €100k stallion.
Who are the middle distance types DD has produced?
I'm not knocking him as a stallion, clearly he is very good; my point is he is greatly overpriced, especially in comparison to Cape Cross, and many others. He is never a €100k stallion.
They can basically charge what they like. Demand will largely drive it. But they can also restrict or increase the availability to any line as they see fit. A fee may also become ‘private’ and may be restricted to certain mares at inflated or discount rates.