• REGISTER NOW!! Why? Because you can't do much without having been registered!

    At the moment you have limited access to view all discussions - and most importantly, you haven't joined our community. What are you waiting for? Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join Join Talking Horses here!

Top Irish Jump Races

Tanlic said:
100k for finishing 2nd is hardly f all, plus they are sportsmen great supporters of the game and will want to have ago.
Click to expand...

On what line of form would IEP finish second in a Champion Hurdle?

It’s £45K to the third, and £182K to the winner of the Stayers.

No brainer decision, given the weakness of the division and IEP being unexposed at staying trips. ;)
 
I'm not sure where to post this, but William Hill non runner no bet on all Cheltenham Festival races from New Years Day 2024.
 
Last edited:
Beef or Salmon said:
You must have annoyed them!!

I lost all concessions etc from them on a previous account, but could still see them, was only when I went to place the bet it would be refused. They have certainly (B365) gotten worse lately.
Click to expand...

They are fairly average these days -they had some phenomenal offers back in the day.
 
On a radio interview WPM said Daryl Jacobs was very happy with Impaire et Passe.
He had State Man where he wanted him, quickened after 2 out, quickened into the straight and then,, State Man quickened away from him a third time.
On that ground, C Hill might get a race .
Maybe the fact that Constitution Hill shares his initials with the owner of Dawn Run, who WPM never rode in a race for some reason, gives Willie an itch he would love to scratch.
Wondering how State Man matches up to Hurricane Fly , anyone ?
 
Constitution Hill has hacked-up on all types of ground, Eddie. Heavy, Soft, G-to-S, Good…..all ground comes alike to the horse, and the going wouldn’t make a jot of a difference to how he’d fare against State Man. He is indisputably a much better horse.

Insofar as comparisons with Hurricane Fly are concerned, he’s almost certainly run into a better horse than HF ever faced in the shape of Constitution Hill, and to be fair - there wouldn’t be a huge amount in it on ratings……though HF was always under-rated on his best performances outside the Festival, imho.

That aside, and conceding he is still a relatively young horse, how many other winners of G1 2-mile hurdles has State Man beaten?

It amounts to Honeysuckle, Sharjah, Saldier and Zanahiyr.

Please don’t make me recount the list of 18 Grade-1 winning horses who Hurricane Fly beat into submission in his long and illustrious career, as means of comparison. In his pomp, he’d have kicked all four of the above aside without breaking sweat. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
Not at all Grassy.
I just put the question to Art today as we looked at the HF statue .
I mean no disrespect to man or horse here.
WMP expressed the opinion that State Man is better the softer the ground.
He is one mightily impressive, professional racehorse and if CH remains so much better, then so be it.
State Man's win today was WPM's 400th Grade 1 win, don't make me list them; Chronic landlord is the man to ask !
 
No beef here whatsoever, Eddie - you are the most honest broker on the internet when it comes to racing.

Arthur isn’t far behind you, though I hear word that he is prone to summer bets on 6f handicaps at The Curragh, which obviously brings his reputation into some ill repute. :thumbsup:
 
Last edited:
edgt said:
On a radio interview WPM said Daryl Jacobs was very happy with Impaire et Passe.
He had State Man where he wanted him, quickened after 2 out, quickened into the straight and then,, State Man quickened away from him a third time.
On that ground, C Hill might get a race .
Maybe the fact that Constitution Hill shares his initials with the owner of Dawn Run, who WPM never rode in a race for some reason, gives Willie an itch he would love to scratch.
Wondering how State Man matches up to Hurricane Fly , anyone ?
Click to expand...

If we are to believe the handicapper State Man doesn't even come close to Hirricane Fly. He did beat Honeysuckle put she ran about 7 lbs below her best that day.

Hurricane Fly took the scalp of Rock on Ruby and that of Jezki who were at least 5or6lbs better than anything State Man has beaten.

Against that at the same time in their careers Hurricane Fly was rated 167 and State Man 167 until Hurricane Fly came of age and won the Champion Hurdle

State Man has along way to go to reach Hurrican Fly's 175 and I can't see how he can.

If Constitution Hill is to break theNight Nurse rating we are going to need another Hurricane Fly or a Sea Pigeon to come out of the woodwork.
 
State Man is the perfect model, right size, great professional attitude, can lead or take a lead, rapid jumper with real speed on tap.
Racing does not seem to take a lot out of him, yet at any rate.
He may never beat C Hill , but he could if C hill makes any slip.
Night Nurse met Silver Buck ten or eleven times over fences; NN only beat SB once when Little Owl beat them both.
Yet Reg Spenser became best friends with SB connections, having the success he had over hurdles made defeat over fences easier, so he said though there was never too much between both horses.
C Hill needs State Man to keep him honest if nothing else.
 
Interesting discussion here guys, been good to read your opinions on State Man vs Hurricane Fly. I did wonder myself yesterday about how good State Man would be regarded if a certain superstar wasn't in the equation, you don't usually win 6 Grade 1s if you're simply a better than average horse. But that said, and I agree with Grassy, you take a look at what State Man has beaten, and that then puts a few doubts in my own head at least, in regards to just how good he is. I think he'd have to find a fair bit to get near to Hurricane Fly if we were to view them like for like.
 
State Man strikes me like yer sort of decent Champion Hurdler level - Jezki, Buv Da'ir, Binocular 165-168 type animal. Hurricane Fly was more early 170s.
 
edgt said:
Not at all Grassy.

State Man's win today was WPM's 400th Grade 1 win, don't make me list them; Chronic landlord is the man to ask !
Click to expand...

Your faith in me is undeserved. I didn't know that the Matheson was his 400th Grade 1 but as far as I am aware, he has had 144 individual Grade 1 winners.
 
granger said:
Out of interest, what are your own thoughts Eamonn?
Click to expand...

Sorry, I am only getting back to you now.

At 2m Marine Nationale looks out on his own among the Irish novice chasers, and I'd be very surprised if there are any in Britain remotely close to him. (No British horse is shorter than 40/1 for the Arkle).

Inthepocket got a very tender ride first time out and may prove best of the rest, while Found a Fifty will probably go up in trip.

Over further,

Indiana Dream was very impressive at Navan, there's a race at Naas on Lawlors day that Appreciate It won last season or a grade 3 at Punchestown in mid January that might be next for him. I'd be surprised given his inexperience if they go straight to the DRF on the back of a beginners chase win.

Fact to File, Gaelic Warrior and Grangeclare West were all impressive this week. I see Patrick was on about Gaelic Warrior going back to two miles but I just can't see him in the Arkle line up. Two and a half on the new course would be more forgiving of his jumping idiosyncrasies.

I was disappointed with Corbett's Cross as I'd expected him to win the Nevilles. The three horses that finished behind him at Fairyhouse (Three Card Brag, Monty's Star and Nick Rockett) all run in the next two days so it will be interesting to see how they get on.

With regard to Facile Vega, his mother wasn't a two miler and neither is he. He is far from consistent but over further I do think that he will be a better horse and if he was to meet Found a Fifty again later in the season I think that he is more than capable of reversing the form. However he has now thrown two stinkers into the mix and forgiveness could be running out shortly.

I haven't seen much of the British novices this season but I liked Stay Away Fay over hurdles and him and Hermes Allen look the pick of what I've seen.

Mind you, they're all lucky that Noel George is keeping his horse in France or there would be some talent in the National Hunt Chase so as to avoid him.
 
chroniclandlord said:
Sorry, I am only getting back to you now.

At 2m Marine Nationale looks out on his own among the Irish novice chasers, and I'd be very surprised if there are any in Britain remotely close to him. (No British horse is shorter than 40/1 for the Arkle).

Inthepocket got a very tender ride first time out and may prove best of the rest, while Found a Fifty will probably go up in trip.

Over further,

Indiana Dream was very impressive at Navan, there's a race at Naas on Lawlors day that Appreciate It won last season or a grade 3 at Punchestown in mid January that might be next for him. I'd be surprised given his inexperience if they go straight to the DRF on the back of a beginners chase win.

Fact to File, Gaelic Warrior and Grangeclare West were all impressive this week. I see Patrick was on about Gaelic Warrior going back to two miles but I just can't see him in the Arkle line up. Two and a half on the new course would be more forgiving of his jumping idiosyncrasies.

I was disappointed with Corbett's Cross as I'd expected him to win the Nevilles. The three horses that finished behind him at Fairyhouse (Three Card Brag, Monty's Star and Nick Rockett) all run in the next two days so it will be interesting to see how they get on.

With regard to Facile Vega, his mother wasn't a two miler and neither is he. He is far from consistent but over further I do think that he will be a better horse and if he was to meet Found a Fifty again later in the season I think that he is more than capable of reversing the form. However he has now thrown two stinkers into the mix and forgiveness could be running out shortly.

I haven't seen much of the British novices this season but I liked Stay Away Fay over hurdles and him and Hermes Allen look the pick of what I've seen.

Mind you, they're all lucky that Noel George is keeping his horse in France or there would be some talent in the National Hunt Chase so as to avoid him.
Click to expand...

Marine will hopefully prove exceptional

FTF looked very impressive over Christmas, I don't get the Corbetts cross hype myself
 
Grey expressed an opinion to me, maybe expressed here or elsewhere that State Man is underrated to keep C Hill's rating from reaching stratospheric levels.
State Man is under rated as HF was in his day, and HF still is by some.
State Man has 7 Grade 1s in the bag in 19 months ; that is rapid accumulation by any standard.
I think we have not seen him at his best yet , at least I hope not.
 

Recent Blog Posts

Back
Top