A Fundamental Question

AC: best ask the trainer how the horse runs. If he says, "Ah, he puts his heart and soul into it', then you have your answer.

But, seriously, I think we can clearly deduce that horses do have souls, in spite of your last assertation. Consider how well the American and European horses have run over the decades when Eastern Europe was under Communist, non-believing, domination. How many sprinters came out of Mao's China, and there were no good middle-distance horses at all in Viet Nam, were they?

Now look at the transformation since the fall of the Eastern bloc, and the emergence of their churches and mosques. Surely it is no mere coincidence that we've seen the parallel emergence of excellent new studs, bolstered by fruitful visitations from our own stallions, themselves born among believers, which are providing powerful contenders. We have runners now with (CHI) and (POL) and think little of it, where before the evil of non-belief had rendered these horses feeble-minded, lazy, weak and without resolve, look at the change now that religion flourishes once more in their homelands!

If this isn't powerful enough witness to horses possessing souls, if only given the chance to experience the right environment, I don't know what is.

I hope this helps?
 
Anti Kri, you are my hero.

All is resolved. Only capitalist & Christian thoroughbreds have souls. So when Aidan says "Please God, George will come back safe from Goodwood" it is not a figure of speech. He really is asking the Almighty.
 
;) I'm delighted that I could rationalize an answer for you, darling. I'm pretty chuffed with it myself, to be honest, as I think it's been an area of racing badly overlooked until now.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Aug 26 2006, 09:14 AM
and there were no good middle-distance horses at all in Viet Nam, were they?
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Maybe not but some of the dogs and rats were delicious.
 
Originally posted by an capall@Aug 26 2006, 09:17 AM
Anti Kri, you are my hero.

All is resolved. Only capitalist & Christian thoroughbreds have souls. So when Aidan says "Please God, George will come back safe from Goodwood" it is not a figure of speech. He really is asking the Almighty.
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I was corresponding with an Irish racing historian last year when Spencer quit Ballydoyle. He told me all Ireland was buzzing with theories; but his own was that Jamie could take no more of "God-Willing O'Brien"

Btw krizon, your post aobut the Capitalist and Christian thoroughbreds had me ROFLing. More, more!
 
I think you've rofled at two of my posts in quick succession now, Heads, and I'm worried about the effects of you over-rofling. Plus, I don't want my rofl quota used up too soon - I prefer to spread my rofls over a few weeks, maybe months, so that people don't think I'm good for a daily rofl.

I'm sorry that some people have been misled by my posting to think that only Christian countries have had the upper hand in producing superior racehorses. That would be wrong - we mustn't forget the influence of the prayer calls of the Muslim muezzin upon the very founding father of the Thoroughbred: the Byerley Turk. There is no doubt that being required to kneel five times daily in prayer with his sais (groom) did wonders for the suppling of the Turk and his breed, which no amount of pole-bending could achieve. Indeed, it is due to this trait of suppleness that today's TB can spring so readily from the gates and into action (with the occasional exception of hot Irish favourites).

It would be wrong, therefore, to attribute the effect of religion's energy fields to only Christian animals, when Islamic ones bore equal fruit. Sadly, due to the secularisation of many Christian and Muslim countries, we see a dilution of performance now which, if left unchecked, will lower the standards of the racehorse to those of previously-Communist countries.

If the need for the spread of fundamentalism ever required justification, it is for the sake of sharper sprinting times and improved stamina performances. (Which quite neatly brings us back to the title of the topic... )
 
Originally posted by krizon@Aug 25 2006, 06:33 PM
Okay, so you get a soul if God touches you (metaphysically speaking, of course). If He doesn't, your luck's out. You go through physical life soullessly, and you die without finding your soul awaiting you on t'other side of Jordan, etc.
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Christ!! We're not suggesting that Peter Andre is??????..... surely????? but it all makes sense I suppose being sent into a jungle for 40 days.
 
Originally posted by Desert Orchid@Aug 24 2006, 10:21 AM
As she lay gasping for a few last, despairing breaths, my mother told us 'they' were all waiting for her, calling her. 'They' were all her brothers and sister who had gone before marked with the sign of faith and now at rest. She said she could see them all, including her young brother who died in childhood, and named them all as though pointing them out in an old photo.

Could she see them or was she hallucinating?

I know what I believe.
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Speaking as somebody who has apparently died and had to be brought back to life/ resuscitated (I use the word had with a deluded sense of self importance I suppose, as I'm sure there was little devine conpunction as strictly speaking someone was probably contractually obliged etc). I certainly don't recall seeing any family members beckoning to me (or telling me to F off either for the matter), white light at end of the tunnel, not unless you count that scanner thing. I've got no recollection of the ambulance journey or the final stage of the rescue, the next thing I remember was the lights on the ceiling of a hospital as I was being rushed through A&E, on a stretcher in some kind of restraining thing, and consequently my gaze was pretty well dictated for me.
 
Originally posted by Melendez@Aug 25 2006, 09:49 AM
Religion, in my most humble of opinions, is an acceptable con.

It sets standards of social behaviour and demands time for inner reflection on how we meet these standards, in return for this it offers the reward of eternal life, of some sort, for those who maintain these standards.

I don't know the ins and outs of most religions, but barring a few bells and whistles and I don't think it's too far of the mark.
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Don't you mean "barring a few bombs and pistols"?

It might set standards in a broad sense? and this is very questionable I'd suggest.

Certain people interpret their readings of scriptures to impose their beliefs on others, which in turn promotes intolerance, division and war. The weaponary might have changed over the years/ centuries but the sentiment remains largely the same.

George W Bush goes to church on the Sunday after 9/11 and signs off by telling everyone he's going on a crusade to smoke out the infidel and that God blesses America. At the British service in St Pauls the Duke Edinburgh of all people said "how can we lose with God on our side?" and yet elements within the muslim world re-joice that this is Allahs will. Interesting that all should hide behind, and even use the backdrop of the buildings erected in the name of the religion to lend credulity to their declarations.

In fact you could argue religion has a conflict of interest. If it is indeed offering eternal life as you hypothesise, then its certainly played its part in speeding the process up where by we have to find out over the period of recorded history.
 
Originally posted by krizon@Aug 26 2006, 09:14 AM
But, seriously, I think we can clearly deduce that horses do have souls, in spite of your last assertation. Consider how well the American and European horses have run over the decades when Eastern Europe was under Communist, non-believing, domination. How many sprinters came out of Mao's China, and there were no good middle-distance horses at all in Viet Nam, were they?

Now look at the transformation since the fall of the Eastern bloc, and the emergence of their churches and mosques. Surely it is no mere coincidence that we've seen the parallel emergence of excellent new studs, bolstered by fruitful visitations from our own stallions, themselves born among believers, which are providing powerful contenders.
If this isn't powerful enough witness to horses possessing souls, if only given the chance to experience the right environment, I don't know what is.

I hope this helps?
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I'm loathed to express a possible flaw in the theory, not least of all because AC seems so content now that he's found the answer to his quest. But is it not the case that the modren thoroughbred is descended from 3 Arabian stallions, who most certainly would have been pro-created under the sign of the crescent? This being the case then, surely Islam has primacy of Christian horses? Just as worrying is that it seemingly opens up the prospect of secetarian breeding and the emergence of Sunni and Shi'ite race horses if one line is alleged to be of greater purity than another :ph34r:
 
Personally I tend to be agnostic on this. If there is life by intelligent design, then its more likely to have come from some kind of alien involvement I'd have thought, but ultimately sustained evolution can account for intelligent design too. Indeed certain climates/ conditions will propogate certain life forms. If these conditions radically change Darwinist theory kicks in and those most suited to survival will continue to do so, and those who aren't perish. In that respect a complex planet can support many different life forms. Did God get bored with Dino one day and sent forth a meteorite?. Or had they started to build false Gods and worshipped unto them and therefore had to be taught a lesson in line with the parable of the Golden Stegasaurus.

I can however believe that Jesus existed, and think this to be quite plausible. Quite who, or precisely what type of a person he was however is another issue?. In today's world of heightend scientific understanding and global media interrogation, he just wouldn't get away it :brows:

Alternatively we could just carbon date the Dead Sea scrolls and see where that takes us, especially as the Christian church no longer appears to have the shroud of Turin to cling to by way of a comfort blanket
 
My peace is now disturbed again. I have just realised that if I follow through with my analysis it would conclude that Coolmore horses have souls, whereas Godolphin horses, being from the Islamic faith, would not. I can't have this. Case reopened.
 
Originally posted by an capall@Aug 28 2006, 08:25 AM
My peace is now disturbed again. I have just realised that if I follow through with my analysis it would conclude that Coolmore horses have souls, whereas Godolphin horses, being from the Islamic faith, would not. I can't have this. Case reopened.
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:lol:

I would recommend listening to The Specials song Peral's Cafe for a full explanation.


Edit: Might help if I put the correct song title up...... :brows:
 
ATTRACTION would, though, support any trace back to the BYERLEY TURK's ancient Islamic heritage - as the religion believes that no work of man is ever perfect. There must be a mistake, even a deliberate mistake, wrought into everything done, whether it's a brick misplaced, or a thread or two awry in a rug, that points to only the Almighty creating perfection. Thus ATTRACTION, being 'created' by humans through their breeding programme, had to have a flaw. Or two. Or, if you count the weedy neck, the plain face...

AC - no, no, no, mon cher. The Koran absolutely provides for souldom. Indeed, if one behaves well in this life as a Muslim man, one is rewarded in the hereafter by entering Paradise ('Al-Firdoz') and being entertained by seven beautiful virgins. A sort of eternal massage parlour without having to pay, as it were. So there is clear evidence of souldom in Islam - not that its departed wimminfolk are rewarded for any piety by the attentions of seven exquisite youths. The Big Three don't stand up too well to the scrutiny of equal opportunities.

No, you must continue to have faith in horses created in believing countries, where they have benefitted from the ether of prayer, hymn and reading entering the very fabric of their being, passed from generation to generation, or being regenerated each time a secular despot falls, and fundamentalism gains a foothold. Based on this, I believe we will be seeing some fine contenders coming from Iran in due time, provided the country hasn't been reduced to atomic ash by America, for the good of the world.
 
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