Ballymore Novices Hurdle

Hamm

Hamm

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Can't see a thread on this.

Any strong fancies?

I really like Diamond Harry, and think the 7/2 is overly generous. I think he ran a fine trial (Benselem my idea of a festival banker) and hopefully his trainer will leave a bit more on him this time.

Yes, he's quirky, but he has also looked extremely impressive in all races prior to trial's day, and I get the feeling if he was trained by Mullins or Nicholls, he would be 7/4.

A lot of people said he looked very 'spare' in the parade ring before his last race - can anyone explain to a layman how condition can be got back, and if this is likely?

I have no issue with his temperament that some others do, liking his tendancy to win impressively, and also good to see he can get his head down and battle when needed.
 
As the season has gone on i've become an increasingly big fan of KARABAK. Followed him after seeing him put it up to Mad Max early in the season. Liked the way he fought back and destroy Mahonia at Cheltenham, and seemed to progress really nicely again when beating Kangaroo Court as he liked at Ascot. Was going away at the line and has shown a relly nice attitude. If there's more progression to come, which I assume there is, then i think he'll take all the beating.

He would be my idea of a banker and I have this horse in a couple of combination bets, so would be a bad result if he doesn't oblige.
 
Hamm said:
Yes, he's quirky, but he has also looked extremely impressive in all races prior to trial's day, and I get the feeling if he was trained by Mullins or Nicholls, he would be 7/4.

A lot of people said he looked very 'spare' in the parade ring before his last race - can anyone explain to a layman how condition can be got back, and if this is likely?
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I think if he was trained by Mullins or Nicholls he would not have turned up looking like a greyhound for a trial race for Cheltenham particularly when the horse has not had a particularly hard season.
 
Having backed Mad Max for this a while back, I'm hopeful that he might move better on an undulating track. If he does, I reckon he can confirm previous form with Karabak.

Would want to be with Mikael on the day though, if he comes over for the race.
 
Yep Gal - reports are that the track could see rain on the Tuesday too.

I've stuck another couple of nicker on Mikael for the Supreme at 100 - just in case.
 
I am concerned about the way DH wanders about about in the straight. Not ideal at cheltenham....
 
Galileo said:
I would add my comment was somewhat tougue in cheek but the horse looked dreadful at Cheltenham.
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No, he looked very light, but not dreadful - that's very unfair to Nick and Jane who have done nothing wrong at all with the horse, have campaigned him cleverly and won a lot of money with him as well as maintaing his unbeaten record which is something not to be sniffed at.

As has been well documented, Diamond Harry is a somewhat excitable type who runs a bit on his nerves and runs himself up light. Some horses are like that - plenty of other trainers would have broken him at home or sent him over the edge mentally so he became bit of a nutter. Nick and Jane have done a lot of work with him and have done superbly well with him.

Hamm is right - well, nearly :p - I believe were he to be trained by a Nicholls or Henderson he'd be a 5/4, even money shot.

Clivex - had it escaped your notice that Diamond Harry has already run at, and won at, Cheltenham [twice]??
 
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Shadow Leader said:
Hamm is right - well, nearly :p - I believe were he to be trained by a Nicholls or Henderson he'd be a 5/4, even money shot.
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My pet hate are those lines often thown up on forums or in the press. If Henderson & Nicholls trained this hurdler he'd be shorter, if O'Brien or Stoute trained that two year old he'd be shorter...

Well of course they would, they are at the top of their profession, have had countless top class horses to compare against etc.

The horse looked miserable to me, regardless of how well they have done with the horse this season. If he looks like that on Wednesday he wont be winning.
 
Careful there SL, you nearly agreed with me :D

Thanks for the info - so I take it you fancy him then?
 
Liking Karabak in this. Not a DH fan. Karabak's performance over Mahonia when obstructed at second last was mightily impressive. Think he has more gears than DH and will be victorious
 
Yes Hamm, I do! He's a lovely animal and what is more, he should improve plenty for seeing fences which is quite scary considering what he has done so far!

Gal - it might be a pet hate of yours but there is a lot of truth in that observation and it's downright patronising, nay insulting, to assume that a Nicholls/Henderson would 1) know what they've got in the first place and 2) know how to train it to get the optimum out of it which in itself insinuates that a Nick Williams [insert other small trainer's name here] either wouldn't know what they have or how to train it properly. It's a pet hate of mine that decent animals from smaller yards get overlooked and underestimated whilst their trainers are patronised and looked down on in such a way.

If I had all the money in the world I'd send a horse to Nick Williams long, long before I sent one to a Nicholls, Pipe, Jonjo or Mullins, for example.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Yes Hamm, I do! He's a lovely animal and what is more, he should improve plenty for seeing fences which is quite scary considering what he has done so far!

Gal - it might be a pet hate of yours but there is a lot of truth in that observation and it's downright patronising, nay insulting, to assume that a Nicholls/Henderson would 1) know what they've got in the first place and 2) know how to train it to get the optimum out of it which in itself insinuates that a Nick Williams [insert other small trainer's name here] either wouldn't know what they have or how to train it properly. It's a pet hate of mine that decent animals from smaller yards get overlooked and underestimated whilst their trainers are patronised and looked down on in such a way.

If I had all the money in the world I'd send a horse to Nick Williams long, long before I sent one to a Nicholls, Pipe, Jonjo or Mullins, for example.
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Oh Dom relax, you assume as much on here as anyone else....poor War Of Attrition's vet didnt have a clue what he was doing according to yourself - he or she might find it a tad patronising nay offended by how you looked down at his or her treatment for the horse!! Yet here the horse is turning up for another Gold Cup after some decent efforts in Grade 1 company this year. But thats not the point....

I never said I looked down on the trainers of Diamond Harry. Just your track record counts for alot...

For example if Willie Mullins told us in the morning he had the Cheltenham bumper winner with Sicilian Secret but Charlie Swan (who has shown himself to be a competent trainer) later on says Long Strand is a certainty...who's opinion are you going to give greater weight to?

Mullins of course simply because of his track record and how he can compare his current horse to his previous greats plus he knows exactly how to prepare his horse for the race simply because he has succeeded before so many times at it. Thats not a slight against Charlie Swan just common sense. Swan might well be perfectly capable of achieving this and he could well be proved right. I would imagine that's why bookies take no chances the top flight trainers...needless to say you shouldn't be complaining as you'll be getting a better price.
 
Mullins thinks every horse of his in the bumper is a certainty so I make sure to ignore him!!

My views on War Of Attrition starting back too early have the square root of feck all to do with any assertion that a horse looked dreadful Gal, does it? Besides which, even Mouse Morris himself admitted they started back earlier than they should have!!! :p

My comments on patronising small trainers were not wholly aimed at you; more at the very people who make these decent horses such a large price when they needn't be and who dismiss their chances simply because they are in smaller yards - namely the media, again.
 
Shadow Leader said:
Mullins thinks every horse of his in the bumper is a certainty so I make sure to ignore him!!

My views on War Of Attrition starting back too early have the square root of feck all to do with any assertion that a horse looked dreadful Gal, does it? Besides which, even Mouse Morris himself admitted they started back earlier than they should have!!! :p

My comments on patronising small trainers were not wholly aimed at you; more at the very people who make these decent horses such a large price when they needn't be and who dismiss their chances simply because they are in smaller yards - namely the media, again.
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Ignore Mullin's bumper horses....hmmmm interesting method.

How exactly is Diamond Harry being dismissed when he is bloody favourite for the race!?!?
 
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Related to which, the one thing which really gets my goat is reading spotlight comments in bumpers/novice hurdles/maidens (the former in particular) which read thus "only cost £8k so not likely to figure here/best watched/look elsewhere for the winner/likely to find a few too good/not likely to be good enough*..." et al.

*delete as applicable
 
In the Cheltenham Bumper, Gal - I'm fed up of hearing half a dozen guesses every year as to which one of Mullins' "is the one....." before something altogether wins.

As for Diamond Harry, for starters you (and plenty of others on here) have stated you can't have him; the likes of Ruby Walsh [and others] have named him as their Bismarck for next week and so many are crabbing him for which reason I cannot see.
 
Shadow Leader said:
In the Cheltenham Bumper, Gal - I'm fed up of hearing half a dozen guesses every year as to which one of Mullins' "is the one....." before something altogether wins.

As for Diamond Harry, for starters you (and plenty of others on here) have stated you can't have him; the likes of Ruby Walsh [and others] have named him as their Bismarck for next week and so many are crabbing him for which reason I cannot see.
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And people are crabbing Cousin Vinny (Willie Mullins), Tatenan (Paul Nicholls), Denman & Kauto Star (Paul Nicholls)....it happens to everyone.

I never said I cannot have Diamond Harry...if he turns up looking like he did the last day I couldnt have him, at his best his chances are pretty obvious....hence his price. Its a hot race though, much stronger than the two mile novice.
 
Clivex - had it escaped your notice that Diamond Harry has already run at, and won at, Cheltenham [twice]??
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So?

Its a different race next week isnt it and any quirks will be exposed

and last performance wasnt that impressive...partly because of the reasons i stated?

I would love to see him win BTW.
 
Like has already been hinted at here ,if Mikael turns up ,he will have the race at his mercy. Ruby riding,would be my nap of the meeting.
 
As much as I like Diamond Harry, and think people went overboard about his last race, Mikael D'Haguenet is surely massively overpriced at 5/1 non runner no bet?
 
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