Big Buck's- Staying Hurdling Arkle

And whats this rubbish about Navan in the heavy? And " a canter"? Big Bucks has form on heavy going.
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Limestone Lad had an official rating of 169, 5lbs below Big Buck's. Fair enough, BB is a magnificent horse. But LL has the higher RPRs on any ground softer than Good To Soft.

Fact, not rubbish.
 
Of course the claim that LL would beat Bb in a "canter" over heavy ground is complete rubbish.
 
Is Sunybay not allowed a bit of poetic licence?

The point being made was that saying one horse is better than another is often too simplistic, that it usually depends on the conditions being faced.

Limestone Lad was supreme on winter ground, and deserves to be remembered for it.
 
Given his post above in response to ardross's, do you really want an answer to that?
 
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was it a light or hard answer?


about comparing the official rating of an english horse and an irish one of10 years ago, I dont think its the same scale.


In fact nobody remebers a OR, timeform or rprsi more accurate.


Big Bucks only serious horse has face is Punchestowns ,

Grand Crus has plenty to find and Mighty Man was finished when runner up at Aintree.
 
The following might be helpful. Ratings on the same scale (RPRs)

Baracouda 18 wins from 27 starts (hurdles) 66.6% strike rate
Best ratings: RPR 176 three times, 175 three times

Big Bucks 14 wins from 25 starts (hurdles) 56% strike rate
Best ratings: RPR 178 once, 176 twice, 174 once

Limestone Lad 29 wins from 47 starts (hurdles) 61% strike rate
Best ratings: RPR 176 twice, 174 three times.

Iris’s Gift 8 wins from 11 starts (hurdles) 72.7% strike rate
Best ratings: RPR 176 once, 173 once

Inglis Drever 13 wins from 23 starts (hurdles) 56.5%
Best ratings: RPR 174 once

Big Bucks has run to the best single rating (178) on RPRs, but Baracouda’s concentration of best ratings is better (six times at 175 or better, as opposed to three times for Big Bucks, from a similar number of starts over hurdles of 27/25).

Iris’s Gift’s strike rate is best at over 72% but from a much smaller number of starts than the others (just 11). Baracouda’s strike rate is a full 10% better than Big Bucks or Inglis Drever from a similar number of starts (27/25/23).


Limestone Lad has done fabulously well (it might be argued better than Big Bucks), but overall in weaker races.

There is clearly not much in it between them. At their best Baracouda and Big Bucks look the best in that they are able to run to the highest ratings more consistently at the top level.

Both Baracouda and Big Bucks give the impression of being better than their best ratings.

For me Baracouda gets the vote with Big Bucks a close second (although Big Bucks isn’t finished yet).

However, going back to the title of this thread it appears that gifted as they are none of these are so superior as to warrant being described as an Arkle of their division. At the moment if you had to pick one it would be Baracouda.
 
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Stevie Wonder: how does it work out that BARACOUDA's rating is lower than BIG BUCK'S's when BARACOUDA's winning percentage was much bigger? I don't geddit.
 
krizon said:
Stevie Wonder: how does it work out that BARACOUDA's rating is lower than BIG BUCK'S's when BARACOUDA's winning percentage was much bigger? I don't geddit.
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Big Buck's won only twice from thirteen starts over hurdles before he joined Nicholls. If we ignore those runs he's 12/12.
 
krizon said:
Stevie Wonder: how does it work out that BARACOUDA's rating is lower than BIG BUCK'S's when BARACOUDA's winning percentage was much bigger? I don't geddit.
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Simply that Baracouda's winning strike rate over hurdles is superior... Also, while Big Bucks has run to the best single rating (178), Baracouda’s concentration of best ratings is better (six times at 175 or better, as opposed to three times for Big Bucks, from a similar number of starts over hurdles of 27/25).

There is so little between them that neither deserve to be referred to as the Arkle of the staying hurdlers' division.
 
I think BB is best judged on his PN form only.

For my money Barrcouda was superb and dominant but Big Bucks has won his races with even more arrogance.

You could slag off Desert Orchids early record too and make such and such a case, but its not really the point is it
 
clivex said:
For my money Barrcouda was superb and dominant but Big Bucks has won his races with even more arrogance.
That's debatable... the arrogance of letting the field go before reeling them back in is just as impressive (although he did get caught out once or twice in this respect, more due to the rider than the horse).

Baracouda has also run to a level of 175+ more often than BB and has thus been more consistent in running to high ratings (even though BB has run to the single highest rating on RPRs).

The point I'm making is that there is so little between them that neither can be regarded as the equivalent of Arkle in their division.
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While it’s true that Flyingbolt was rated highly in his prime, he only won 12 of his 25 starts over fences (less than half). Arkle won 22 of his 26 starts over fences and never carried less than 12 stone in his last 19 races. At his best Flyingbolt was splendid, but Arkle was something else altogether.
 
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