R
rumoursabound
Guest
If i were you guys,i would choke every chickens neck that i could find.
Except for my own private one.
Except for my own private one.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Jules I have not got to relate to you with regards THE CJD crisis in BEEF.......... 
Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease
In some cases, TSE diseases appear to be infectious. For example, there is good evidence that a newly discovered TSE disease — variant CJD (vCJD) — was first spread to humans from cattle infected with BSE, although that type of transmission is believed to be very inefficient. Identifying the transmissible agent is still an ongoing area of research. A leading hypothesis about the origin of vCJD is that abnormal forms of prion protein ingested through diseased meat sicken people by causing normal human prion protein to form incorrectly. This change from normal to abnormal prion protein spreads to the brain, where the misshapen protein aggregates in the spaces between brain cells and produces disease. An alternative hypothesis is that the disease is transmitted by a virus, which subsequently triggers the process of forming abnormal prion protein.
Health officials in the United Kingdom have responded to the possibility that beef infected with BSE may have spread vCJD to humans. Since the 1980s, when the mad cow epidemic began in the United Kingdom, millions of cattle in Europe have been destroyed. Worldwide, there have been 153 reported cases of vCJD, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). All of these cases were among people who ate beef in a country with a BSE outbreak, and nearly all — 143 of the cases — were in the United Kingdom.
The first North American case of mad cow disease was found in Canada in May 2003. Discovery of the first U.S. case of mad cow disease followed in December 2003 in a Washington state cow. Although no cases of endemic vCJD have been reported in the United States, more research is needed to confirm whether vCJD is spread to humans from cattle with mad cow disease.
An older human TSE, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, is similar to vCJD but progresses much more quickly and affects older people. Medical experts believe it can be both inherited and transmitted through infection, although some cases occur sporadically without a known cause.
so this tells me to leave poultry alone in future.....................
but I do now eat beef but there was a time I never did when the scare came on...
Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease
In some cases, TSE diseases appear to be infectious. For example, there is good evidence that a newly discovered TSE disease — variant CJD (vCJD) — was first spread to humans from cattle infected with BSE, although that type of transmission is believed to be very inefficient. Identifying the transmissible agent is still an ongoing area of research. A leading hypothesis about the origin of vCJD is that abnormal forms of prion protein ingested through diseased meat sicken people by causing normal human prion protein to form incorrectly. This change from normal to abnormal prion protein spreads to the brain, where the misshapen protein aggregates in the spaces between brain cells and produces disease. An alternative hypothesis is that the disease is transmitted by a virus, which subsequently triggers the process of forming abnormal prion protein.
Health officials in the United Kingdom have responded to the possibility that beef infected with BSE may have spread vCJD to humans. Since the 1980s, when the mad cow epidemic began in the United Kingdom, millions of cattle in Europe have been destroyed. Worldwide, there have been 153 reported cases of vCJD, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). All of these cases were among people who ate beef in a country with a BSE outbreak, and nearly all — 143 of the cases — were in the United Kingdom.
The first North American case of mad cow disease was found in Canada in May 2003. Discovery of the first U.S. case of mad cow disease followed in December 2003 in a Washington state cow. Although no cases of endemic vCJD have been reported in the United States, more research is needed to confirm whether vCJD is spread to humans from cattle with mad cow disease.
An older human TSE, Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, is similar to vCJD but progresses much more quickly and affects older people. Medical experts believe it can be both inherited and transmitted through infection, although some cases occur sporadically without a known cause.
so this tells me to leave poultry alone in future.....................
but I do now eat beef but there was a time I never did when the scare came on...
R
rumoursabound
Guest
You should worry about what is being broadcast on Panorama as you read this.
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,038
The medical experts are saying cooked poultry cannot have the virus. BSE didn't stop me from eating 'proper' beef, Edwina Currie never stopped me from eating soft-boiled eggs and this won't stop me from eating proper poultry.
And may I refer you, Merlin, to the predictions made at the time of the CJD crisis, namely that the number of deaths would exceed several hundred a year within 10 years. They have had to backtrack considerably on those, frankly, inaccurate forecasts.
I am not saying we shouldn't be prudent and careful with the way we view the potential for avian flu but knee-kerk reactions can cause more damage than the actual problem itself.
We should all be eating carefully sourced and reared BRITISH poultry and meat - there is no excuse to be doing anything else (or, of course, if living in Ireland, Irish produce). And that means eating less pre-prepared chilled or processed meals because those are the prime sources of meat/poultry from God knows where, raised and fed with God knows what.
And the only reason for not doing so is because you don't want to make the time to do it - if you shop carefully, it won't cost you any more. Time is the expensive factor in all this, not the cost of the raw materials. Cheaper cuts of meat mean you have to spend a bit more time on cooking them properly, is all.
Plus you are then doing your bit to reduce the high cost of transport miles on imported meat and poultry too.
I am not saying we shouldn't be prudent and careful with the way we view the potential for avian flu but knee-kerk reactions can cause more damage than the actual problem itself.
We should all be eating carefully sourced and reared BRITISH poultry and meat - there is no excuse to be doing anything else (or, of course, if living in Ireland, Irish produce). And that means eating less pre-prepared chilled or processed meals because those are the prime sources of meat/poultry from God knows where, raised and fed with God knows what.
And the only reason for not doing so is because you don't want to make the time to do it - if you shop carefully, it won't cost you any more. Time is the expensive factor in all this, not the cost of the raw materials. Cheaper cuts of meat mean you have to spend a bit more time on cooking them properly, is all.
Plus you are then doing your bit to reduce the high cost of transport miles on imported meat and poultry too.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
D/O you were one of the lucky ones obviously.......
Worldwide, there have been 153 reported cases of vCJD, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). All of these cases were among people who ate beef in a country with a BSE outbreak, and nearly all — 143 of the cases — were in the United Kingdom.
Yes Jules I agree but I just don't want to become one of these statistics myself!! I would rather be very prudent and abstain from eating something that could?? be diseased which could cause me to die regardless as to where it originates from.... but I will concede your statement!! As reflecting that out of choice I would eat British poultry or any British meat in preference to anywhere else in the world and I herd!!!!
(excuse the pun) YOUR POLESHILL BEEF IS DELICIOUS I'LL HAVE TO GET A BIGGER FREEZER..................
Desert Orchid
Senior Jockey
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2005
- Messages
- 25,038
I'm not convinced luck had anything to do with it, Merlin.
There hasn't really been a scare about properly sourced UK/Irish beef. As for eggs, I could concede there's an element of luck because I prefer my yolks soft but since I only eat about a dozen eggs a year anyway I wasn't going to let the odds affect my preference.
Poultry has always been iffy unless cooked properly and I never take chances with it. There's simply no risk if it's cooked thoroughly.
There probably really is more chance of my being run over by a bus than dying from eating beef, eggs or poultry.
There hasn't really been a scare about properly sourced UK/Irish beef. As for eggs, I could concede there's an element of luck because I prefer my yolks soft but since I only eat about a dozen eggs a year anyway I wasn't going to let the odds affect my preference.
Poultry has always been iffy unless cooked properly and I never take chances with it. There's simply no risk if it's cooked thoroughly.
There probably really is more chance of my being run over by a bus than dying from eating beef, eggs or poultry.
A
Ardross
Guest
Kathy I think you are right - what a load of unutterable bilge about stagnant water and wild birds - what an idiot that bloke was . He seems to be confusing avian flu with malaria
I think that he was standing next to me at Newmarket on Ascot Festival day - when he told his companion that he wasn't going to back Ouija Board as Fallon could have ridden it and had chosen to ride Briolette !!!!!
I think that he was standing next to me at Newmarket on Ascot Festival day - when he told his companion that he wasn't going to back Ouija Board as Fallon could have ridden it and had chosen to ride Briolette !!!!!
BrianH
At the Start
I'm not too worried about bird 'flu - but my auntie's budgie is shitting himself...
archie
Senior Jockey
Tamiflu is not a vaccine against bird flu. There is no vaccine, as yet. As I understand it, Tamiflu is an anti-viral which may help reduce the risk of contracting flu in general and may also reduce the severity of the infection.
From what a friend (who works on the 'recipe' for the annual flu jab cocktail) says, there will definitely be a flu pandemic this century but it may be next year, in 10 years or in 50 years. No-one knows. Liam Donaldson said something similar this weekend. He also said that the effect of any future pandemic (based on number of deaths) could vary from mild to severe.
From what a friend (who works on the 'recipe' for the annual flu jab cocktail) says, there will definitely be a flu pandemic this century but it may be next year, in 10 years or in 50 years. No-one knows. Liam Donaldson said something similar this weekend. He also said that the effect of any future pandemic (based on number of deaths) could vary from mild to severe.
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Its bound to be coming I just looked out the back garden and see a Starling with an handkerchief I cant ever remember seeing this before?..........Or was he waving a white flag!!! 
Going off the subject...........
And the Navy must in town I just saw a RED ADMIRAL!! BUTTERFLY on my DAHLIA’S at this time of the year(that’s rare or is it?) and no I aint been drinking either…………..
:lol: :lol:
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Or maybe this bird flue may now cause millions to die? We had BSE in the beef as your all very aware of, caused now they say! by feeding human beings parts to cattle, (imported from India that’s the last cause I seen on the box)…..[/QUOTE]
A
Ardross
Guest
I am confused . How did man create HIV ? Or the 1918 flu strain for a start or any flu virus .
I am rather concerned by the US lab that has recreated the very virulent 1918 flu strain nd proposes to publish its genetic sequence on the internet . That seems to be reckless as our 21st century bodies are not resistant to it .
Surely, this is one of those might happen things that we should be vigilant about rather than lie awake at night as :
1 The only persons that have caught this bird flu have been poultry farmers in the Far East with very close ongoing contact
2 There is only possible and not wholly proven case of transmission between humans
3 The virus will have to mutate with a human affecting strain
4 It is not certain that such a strain would be very dangerous
5 There is scope of course for a vaccine to be developed promptly even if such a strain occurred
6 The strain might be resistant to Tamiflu but it might not thus reducing the seriousness of the symptoms
7 Modern control measures are far better than they used to be at isloating such viruses look at the suppression of SARS .
Panic not but be vigilant
I am rather concerned by the US lab that has recreated the very virulent 1918 flu strain nd proposes to publish its genetic sequence on the internet . That seems to be reckless as our 21st century bodies are not resistant to it .
Surely, this is one of those might happen things that we should be vigilant about rather than lie awake at night as :
1 The only persons that have caught this bird flu have been poultry farmers in the Far East with very close ongoing contact
2 There is only possible and not wholly proven case of transmission between humans
3 The virus will have to mutate with a human affecting strain
4 It is not certain that such a strain would be very dangerous
5 There is scope of course for a vaccine to be developed promptly even if such a strain occurred
6 The strain might be resistant to Tamiflu but it might not thus reducing the seriousness of the symptoms
7 Modern control measures are far better than they used to be at isloating such viruses look at the suppression of SARS .
Panic not but be vigilant
simmo
Senior Jockey
Merlin, I realise that it was your friends making this statement, but it does seem to be at odds with the Facts. In the past 4 years, the number of people in Africa ho have contracted AIDS/HIV has risen by 8 million (3 million of those in the last year). In addition 3 million other people have died in the past year.
So, whilst a cure has been found, the world is not stopping the pandemic, or even slowing it down.
Feel free to run that thought by them!
BrianH
At the Start
So BSE was caused by those Indians feeding humans to the cows?
Bastards...
Bastards...
Colin Phillips
At the Start
Merlin, did you say rare Admiral or was that one of your typos?
A
Ardross
Guest
A woman on Radio 4 has just said she has given up chicken to avoid getting bird flu :nerd:
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Merlin, I realise that it was your friends making this statement, but it does seem to be at odds with the Facts. In the past 4 years, the number of people in Africa ho have contracted AIDS/HIV has risen by 8 million (3 million of those in the last year). In addition 3 million other people have died in the past year.
So, whilst a cure has been found, the world is not stopping the pandemic, or even slowing it down.
Feel free to run that thought by them! [/b][/quote]
SIMMO read it all don't just pick part of a sentence out and declare that this has been said/stated as thats not correct here it is again just for you......
BrianH
At the Start
Merlin, I have never come across the theory of BSE being caused by humans being fed to cattle before! What is your source for this astonishing revelation?
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
Ooohhh, so that's what went wrong - I knew we shouldn't be feeding maize silage to the cattle... [/b][/quote]
BRIAN - JULES that's correct... what they the boffins!!!!! have stated what caused the outbreak.... quoted by me not written by me.................
COLIN no it was a RED not a RARE as posted its not a typo............ and I like others on here I am human(I hope
) and not infallible either, and sometimes make a mistake or two
A
Ardross
Guest
I can't see how humans created AIDS or any other viral pandemic . BSE is different it is a disease caused by a protein dysfunction apparently contributed to by feeding scrapie infected meat to cattle . How will humans cause a viral pandemic save in some terrible Pandora's box like situation .
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
It does not say that Ardross it says that another disease or major pandamic will be brought about it does not state man invented the HIV virus or AIDS...
BUT FOR YOUR INFORMATION AND OTHERS HERE'S HOW IT SUPPOSED TO HAVE STARTED.....
Another myth was that these jungle living people had copulated with apes or monkeys also never substantiated...............
Where did HIV come from?
The earliest known case of HIV-1 in a human was from a blood sample collected in 1959 from a man in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo. (How he became infected is not known.) Genetic analysis of this blood sample suggested that HIV-1 may have stemmed from a single virus in the late 1940s or early 1950s.
We know that the virus has existed in the United States since at least the mid- to late 1970s. From 1979-1981 rare types of pneumonia, cancer, and other illnesses were being reported by doctors in Los Angeles and New York among a number of male patients who had sex with other men. These were conditions not usually found in people with healthy immune systems.
In 1982 public health officials began to use the term "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome," or AIDS, to describe the occurrences of opportunistic infections, Kaposi's sarcoma (a kind of cancer), and Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia in previously healthy people. Formal tracking (surveillance) of AIDS cases began that year in the United States.
In 1983, scientists discovered the virus that causes AIDS. The virus was at first named HTLV-III/LAV (human T-cell lymphotropic virus-type III/lymphadenopathy- associated virus) by an international scientific committee. This name was later changed to HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).
For many years scientists theorized as to the origins of HIV and how it appeared in the human population, most believing that HIV originated in other primates. Then in 1999, an international team of researchers reported that they had discovered the origins of HIV-1, the predominant strain of HIV in the developed world. A subspecies of chimpanzees native to west equatorial Africa had been identified as the original source of the virus. The researchers believe that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood.
BRIAN do you think I would actually leave myself open to ridicule?? by writing something like this I read it somwhere and will try and find it.................I posted the same information on here a few weeks ago now.... strange how no one picked it up then???
BUT FOR YOUR INFORMATION AND OTHERS HERE'S HOW IT SUPPOSED TO HAVE STARTED.....
Another myth was that these jungle living people had copulated with apes or monkeys also never substantiated...............
Where did HIV come from?
The earliest known case of HIV-1 in a human was from a blood sample collected in 1959 from a man in Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo. (How he became infected is not known.) Genetic analysis of this blood sample suggested that HIV-1 may have stemmed from a single virus in the late 1940s or early 1950s.
We know that the virus has existed in the United States since at least the mid- to late 1970s. From 1979-1981 rare types of pneumonia, cancer, and other illnesses were being reported by doctors in Los Angeles and New York among a number of male patients who had sex with other men. These were conditions not usually found in people with healthy immune systems.
In 1982 public health officials began to use the term "acquired immunodeficiency syndrome," or AIDS, to describe the occurrences of opportunistic infections, Kaposi's sarcoma (a kind of cancer), and Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia in previously healthy people. Formal tracking (surveillance) of AIDS cases began that year in the United States.
In 1983, scientists discovered the virus that causes AIDS. The virus was at first named HTLV-III/LAV (human T-cell lymphotropic virus-type III/lymphadenopathy- associated virus) by an international scientific committee. This name was later changed to HIV (human immunodeficiency virus).
For many years scientists theorized as to the origins of HIV and how it appeared in the human population, most believing that HIV originated in other primates. Then in 1999, an international team of researchers reported that they had discovered the origins of HIV-1, the predominant strain of HIV in the developed world. A subspecies of chimpanzees native to west equatorial Africa had been identified as the original source of the virus. The researchers believe that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood.
BRIAN do you think I would actually leave myself open to ridicule?? by writing something like this I read it somwhere and will try and find it.................I posted the same information on here a few weeks ago now.... strange how no one picked it up then???
Merlin the Magician
At the Start
FOUND IT ON THE BBC NEWS......................LAUGH NO MORE.......... Last Updated: Thursday, 1 September 2005, 23:15 GMT 00:15 UK
E-mail this to a friend Printable version
'Human remains link' to BSE cases
By Paul Rincon
BBC News science reporter
The origins of BSE remain murky
The first cases of BSE or "mad cow disease" could have been caused by animal feed contaminated with human remains, says a controversial theory.
Some raw materials for fertiliser and feed imported from South Asia in the 60s and 70s contained human bones and soft tissue, the Lancet reports.
Bone collectors could have picked up the remains of corpses deposited in the Ganges river to sell for export.
If infected with prion diseases, they could have been the source for BSE.
I don't think anyone has thought about the very rare but very important risk posed by the corpse of someone who has died from a version of CJD
Professor Alan Colchester, University of Kent
But the theory has been greeted with scepticism by several experts on Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy (BSE).
The authors admit their evidence stops short of proving their case, but argue that their theory is plausible enough to warrant further investigation.
The appearance of a form of CJD in humans, known as variant CJD or vCJD, has been linked to the BSE outbreak and is blamed for hundreds of deaths.
Prions, the abnormal proteins that cause CJD and vCJD in humans, BSE in cows and scrapie in sheep, are remarkably resistant to both natural decay and sterilisation procedures.
Funerary practices
The UK imported hundreds of thousands of tonnes of whole bones, crushed bones and carcass parts in the 1960s and 1970s to make fertiliser as well as meat and bone meal feed.
Nearly 50% came from Bangladesh, India and Pakistan, where gathering large bones and carcasses from the countryside and from rivers is an established local trade.
Hindu funerary practices require that human remains are disposed of in a river, preferably the Ganges. Although the body should ideally be burned, many people cannot afford enough wood for a full cremation, the report's authors claim.
The Ganges occupies an important place in Hindu religious life
Simply smoking the pelvis in women and the torso in men is sometimes enough. And many complete corpses are thrown into the Ganges.
"There are a whole range of public health concerns over Ganges pollution," lead author Professor Alan Colchester, of the University of Kent, told the BBC News website.
"But amongst all the recognition of potential problems, I don't think anyone has thought about the very rare but very important risk posed by the corpse of someone who has died from a version of CJD."
Human remains have been described in material delivered to processing mills. And during the 1960s, human material was confirmed in consignments of bones shipped into French docks from Asia.
A spokesman for the Department for Environment Food and Rural Affairs (Defra) said it went along with the findings of a 2001 report into the origin of BSE, where a favoured hypothesis was that BSE had its origins with scrapie.
But the spokesman said the department was open minded about new findings.
Indian findings
Dr David Brown of the University of Bath, an expert in prion diseases, told the BBC News website: "It's certainly a possibility that you can't rule out completely, but I would say that on a scale of probability, it would be down at the low end."
Professor Colchester estimates that about 120 Hindu people die from CJD each year. But Dr Brown pointed out that the poor, who might account for many corpses in the Ganges, also have a relatively short life expectancy. Human prion diseases, meanwhile, often present themselves in old age.
Professor Susarla Shankar, head of neurology at the National Institute of Mental Health and Neurosciences in Bangalore, India, said he thought the theory would not stand up to scientific scrutiny.
"If this was so, you would expect to find more cases of BSE in Indian cattle. At the moment, the surveillance centre doesn't have a single case," he told the BBC News website.
Bone collecting was a traditional practice, he said, but added that even if some human material was making it into the raw materials for animal feed it would be so little as to be of scant consequence.
Resilient proteins
But only a tiny amount of contaminated brain tissue is needed to transmit human CJD to nonhuman primates in the lab. On the other hand, nothing is known about the transmission of human prion diseases to cattle.
It was shown in the 1980s that prion proteins could survive the entire chain of processes leading to the production of animal feed in an infectious form.
The feeding of mammalian meat and bone meal to farm animals has been banned since 1996. Yet sporadic cases of BSE have occurred in the UK and in Europe, where regulations were also tightened, since the ban. These cases remain unexplained.
Professor Bill Hill of the University of Edinburgh said the incidence of the disease is falling and that it was hoped BSE could be eradicated altogether by adhering to measures put in place to control the disease.