Breeder's Cup Meeting

Coolmore/Murtagh/O'Brien have looked stupid on occasions when they overcomplicate things....generally when they have more than one runner and they try to control the race...SOF & RRC in the Turf last year (as Gearoid mentioned), Melbourne Cup last year, Epsom Derby this year etc.

This year they all look pretty straight forward and a more simple approach is likely.
 
According to the Daily Form it does. Bob Baffert however says its riding more like the original dirt and they definitely don't know how to maintain it properly. The track at H Park looks very shallow in depth and it seems to jar alot of horses which you don't get with Polytrack.
I will post again after going there this afternoon and watching how it rides.
 
trackside528 said:
I'll certainly be looking to back Rip Van Winkle with the American tote on the night.
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Same here. I'm not sure about O'Brien's ability to recognise when a horse has gone but I do trust him to get a horse who's had the sort of problem's Rip has had to the track and ready to run for his life. I've seen a few of Zenyatta's races on Youtube and she does look top class, but how good are the American fillies she's beat? Ability wise it's more likely she's on a Bank's Hill kind of level (late120's) than a Zarkava (early 130's) and ultimately even if she is in the latter's league a top form RVW would likely beat her. I'd have liked him to have been more impressive at Ascot but I guess the trainer left a bit to work on.
 
Well worth typing in "TVG The Works" into Youtube if you haven't seen it on ATR. Just spent the guts of an hour watching it and does give you a decent insight into the American horses especially.
 
I never thought I would say these words, but a good piece in the RP from Lee M...particularly like the last interaction between Cecil and the Yanks...:)

By Lee Mottershead at Santa Anita7.39PM 4 NOV 2009
IT IS every bit as beautiful as you've heard. And then a bit more. If you were planning to go to Doncaster on Saturday, don't - come here instead. Just this once, it will be worth missing out on the November Handicap.




At this precise moment, I am sat typing in the Santa Anita press room, although it's not actually a room. Asthey don't seem to get bad weather here, the rows of work stations for reporters are situated on an elevated outdoor position just past the winning post. Directly in front of me - David Ashforth (Racing Post) to my left, Liz Price (Paris-Turf) to my right - is the main track (brown), then the grass track (green), then the San Gabriel mountains (huge and stunning).


If you can't get here, read about it in the Racing Post - and live on racingpost.com - and watch it on At The Races or Racing UK. It's going to be something special.
So many of the world's best horses, trainers and jockeys are here for a contest that seems to be increasingly billed by the locals as racing's very own Ryder Cup, no doubt partly because the locals managed to win the latest golfing showdown. I'm a jumps boy at heart, but it's impossible not to enjoy a Breeders' Cup at Santa Anita, even if it turns out that I'm allergic to the Pro-Ride racing surface. For the last three days, I've been sneezing my head off, but Rip Van Winkle doesn't seem be suffering the same affliction, so don't worry if you've backed him.
Speaking of Aidan O'Brien, the great man is here and behaving just brilliantly. For European journalists, much of the morning is spent waiting outside the racecourse quarantine barn in the hope that one of our trainers turns up and says something. At about 8.45am on Wednesday (4.45pm at home), O'Brien turned up and for around 30 minutes nattered happily, interestingly and informatively about his California contingent, only breaking off briefly to make sure that his children and those of Johnny Murtagh were going to get themselves some breakfast at Clockers' Corner.
Said corner, situated near the top of the home stretch (note use of Stateside jargon), is a wonderful place. It's here that everyone turns up for breakfast. Coffee seems compulsory, which is handy as our American friends so rarely get tea right, but the food options are many. One possibility is the Bob Baffert breakfast, a $4.75 feast that incorporates scrambled eggs, sliced tomatoes, avocado slices (I know), toast and a choice of bacon, Canadian bacon, sausage or ham. While I was there this morning, one man asked for a fried egg sandwich, to which the server responded, and I kid you not: "Do you want eggs with that?"
I didn't see Sir Michael Stoute down by the the Corner, but I did follow him on foot for a mile and a half while he walked with Conduit and Zacinto. The great man, who loves to tease journalists, knew full well that a press pack was following him, but at no point decided to have a few words. How we laughed.
We also had a giggle when Henry Cecil, who has so far decided not to sport a baseball cap, had a bit of a conversation with an intrepid American hack. The exchange went a bit like this:
Reporter (USA): "Whad'ya think o' Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng): "I'm sorry."
Reporter (USA): "Whad'ya think o' Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng, head to one side): "I'm sorry."
Reporter's friend (USA): "What do you think of Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng): "Oh, I see. Well, I've only been here for five minutes, but it seems lovely."
Reporter (USA): "And have you been here before?"
Cecil(Eng): "No, it's my first time."
Reporter (USA): "Don't worry, I've not been to Wolverhampton."
Cecil (Eng): "Neither have I."
And then they went their separate ways. They'll be back on Thursday, but I doubt either will ever make it to Woolybags.
 
Dylan Thomas said:
I dont like the way o'brien is always coming out about problems with Rip before all his races and especially this one it may be a case that he knows Rip doesn't like the surface or something like that.
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You'd rather trainers kept information about setbacks and other potential performance-affecting factors to themselves?

And if they "knew" that he didn't like the surface, why on earth would they be running him in the Classic?
 
trackside528 said:
Do we not remember O'Brien saying that he had his doubts about whether Rip Van Winkle actually got 10 furlongs after the Eclipse?
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I don't know what O'Brien said after the race, but if Rip Van Winkle didn't stay 10f at Sandown then the whole concept of 'staying' a trip is useless.
 
Galileo said:
Reporter (USA): "Whad'ya think o' Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng): "I'm sorry."
Reporter (USA): "Whad'ya think o' Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng, head to one side): "I'm sorry."
Reporter's friend (USA): "What do you think of Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng): "Oh, I see. Well, I've only been here for five minutes, but it seems lovely."
Reporter (USA): "And have you been here before?"
Cecil(Eng): "No, it's my first time."
Reporter (USA): "Don't worry, I've not been to Wolverhampton."
Cecil (Eng): "Neither have I."
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:lol:

A big run from Twice Over wouldn't surprise me in the least after the job Cecil has done on him since the Eclipse.
 
I didn't see Sir Michael Stoute down by the the Corner, but I did follow him on foot for a mile and a half while he walked with Conduit and Zacinto. The great man, who loves to tease journalists, knew full well that a press pack was following him, but at no point decided to have a few words. How we laughed.
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:lol::lol::lol: Yeah, right!!!! I bet they were swearing their heads off that he wouldn't give them a juicy bunch of quotes to write their articles for them!!!!

The most pleasing part of the whole damn article is to know that Mottershead won't be skulking around Sandown on Saturday.
 
Galileo said:
That is interesting, do not remember that happening before. Do they race on bute as well there?
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Not sure whether bute even gets noted on the card.

Anyway, O'Brien said:

O'Brien explained: "We always used lasix. Our attitude was, when in Rome do what the Romans do. Some of our horses won on lasix, and we went along with it, but just because horses won on it doesn't mean it was necessarily a good policy."
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Maybe all those second places are making him wonder :)
 
Lasix is one thing; bute another. The trouble with bute is that where it masks pain, a horse who isn't on bute but sustains an injury has more chance of feeling it and looking after themselves than one that isn't on bute who will just keep on going. That said, adrenaline tends to mask pain for a while as well but bute is surely going to keep them running for longer whilst injured than adrenaline. That is a major drawback to painkillers; as I've been told many a time, feeling pain is the body's way of telling you to stop as something is wrong. Painkillers mask that.
 
Just looking back at last year's turf, shocking stuff from murtagh. Quite amazing the horse finished so close going the first mile so strong.
 
A O'B quoted as saying, re RVW:
"He's probably the most natural athlete we've ever had."

Leaves me feeling confused, with all the (other) real greats they've had.
Perhaps it's just my understanding of his term 'natural athlete' ....
 
O'Brien nominated Lillie Langtry as his best chance (not good news for MCM).

Does anyone know much about the American juveniles, or where may be a good starting place?
 
mrussell said:
A O'B quoted as saying, re RVW:
"He's probably the most natural athlete we've ever had."

Leaves me feeling confused, with all the (other) real greats they've had.
Perhaps it's just my understanding of his term 'natural athlete' ....
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Ballydoyle horses get "greater" every year. At this rate, by 2020 they will have an absolute superhorse, think of a cross between Sea The Stars and the Six Million Dollar Man.
 
I don't usually bet in multiples but I fancy doing some combinations involving Rip, Alfred Noble/Beethoven, Lillie Langtry and Delegator, with the morning line prices for the first two being extremely tempting.
 
Galileo said:
I never thought I would say these words, but a good piece in the RP from Lee M...particularly like the last interaction between Cecil and the Yanks...:)

We also had a giggle when Henry Cecil, who has so far decided not to sport a baseball cap, had a bit of a conversation with an intrepid American hack. The exchange went a bit like this:
Reporter (USA): "Whad'ya think o' Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng): "I'm sorry."
Reporter (USA): "Whad'ya think o' Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng, head to one side): "I'm sorry."
Reporter's friend (USA): "What do you think of Santa Anita?"
Cecil (Eng): "Oh, I see. Well, I've only been here for five minutes, but it seems lovely."
Reporter (USA): "And have you been here before?"
Cecil(Eng): "No, it's my first time."
Reporter (USA): "Don't worry, I've not been to Wolverhampton."
Cecil (Eng): "Neither have I."
Click to expand...

Sounds like Henry is having fun. This is Steve Haskin’s report of it:

"If there is one main aspect of the Breeders’ Cup that is most fascinating it is the merging of American and British cultures, whether it be terminology, style of racing, or in the way horsemen deal with the media and vice versa.
In America, we have an eclectic group of trainers, each with their own personality and method of communicating with the press. The same for the most part can be said of the British horsemen, who are cloistered away in their own little domains and have far less dealings with those pesky blokes with the note pads and tape recorders. And then we come to Henry Cecil, who seems to enjoy testing those who hurl questions his way.

On a cool, crisp morning at Santa Anita Wednesday, Cecil stood on a ledge just beyond Clocker’s Corner and shared a few innocuous comments about his three Breeders’ Cup contenders, Twice Over, Midday, and Father Time, with a pair of British journalists to his left who had scaled the same ledge to get a few words of wisdom from the maestro, or at least a few words to fill their copy. Cecil was offering the usual fare of comments about his horses when off to his right, a foreigner with a twisted New York accent joined in the exchange with what was thought to be a good tension breaker, even if it was a lame attempt at making an amiable introduction.

“When was the last time you were at Santa Anita?”

Cecil, unaware of this intruder to his right, appeared surprised as he was forced to turn his head in the opposite direction to see from where this riveting question emanated.

“I’ve never been here before,” he replied with a quizzical look, his head tilted off to the side.

“What do you think?” said the Yank, believing his strategy to be a dumb, but hopefully effective ice breaker.

“Well, I’ve only been here about five minutes,” said Cecil, even though he had been in virtually the same spot for the past 30 minutes and had actually been confronted by this same reporter earlier while walking to Clocker’s Corner, offering a few tame comments about his horses and himself.

“What do you think in those five minutes you have been here?” said the dense American, with the two British reporters still guffawing at Cecil’s comment.

“It’s lovely isn’t it, really?” Cecil replied in his typical question/answer style. “It’s far better than Wolverhampton and Southwell.”

Cecil’s attempt at combining deadpan humor with the act of swatting away an annoying gnat, was greeted by yet another lame retort: “I’ve never been to Wolverhampton or Southwell” (although he had in fact been to Salisbury and Bath).

Cecil shot back: “I haven’t either. But I’ve heard all about it.”

He then actually shared a few comments about his horses, mainly Twice Over, before deciding the time had come to conclude the conversation. “Is that enough?” he asked. Realizing he had left the door a bit too wide open, he proceeded to answer his own question: “I think that’s enough.”

The intruder thanked Cecil for his time, jumped off the ledge, and went off in search of the first American trainer he could find.

Later that morning he joined in the mass assemblage gathered closely around Aidan O’Brien, who as usual offered direct, honest, informative, and witty comments, even after the crowd had departed and there were only two reporters remaining.

Ah, I miss Ireland.

But the truth is, Cecil, despite his textbook remarks about his horses, did offer some stimulation in a charming manner, and that is what makes the Breeders’ Cup such a special event.

As Cecil himself said as he walked to Clocker’s Corner with said reporter, “It’s a different world, isn’t it?” Of course, he was referring to Twice Over having been "very relaxed traveling to America and settling in well," but who cares?

One final comment from Cecil after it had been mentioned to him that a victory by any of his horses would be a popular one in England. “I don’t know about that,” he said. “It will be popular with me, anyway.”

You gotta love it".
 
I think Lillie Langtry is the Guineas winner so naturally enough I think she will go very close on Friday though the short straight may not be in her favour.

Found out none of the Breeders Cup runners are allowed run on bute.
 
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