Breeders Cup

On Zenyatta, how far did you expect her to win by before the race. A length, two, maybe up to five. But ATR would have us believe Smith rode the race 30 lengths wrong. It's absolute rubbish. She missed the kick, took time to get going, wasn't rushed by Smith to the turn. She was 12, maybe 14, lengths behind Blame passing the lollipop first time. Smith seemed to ask her to close passing the stands and she was no more than 7 lengths behind Blame at the start of the back, which closed to five by the end of the back straight. Maybe he should have nudged her on then but decided to wait to near the home turn where I think two things cost her the race (1) the horse in yellow dropped back quickly and she and she was checked with loss of a length and (2) he had to come wide while Blame got a good run through. Another length. That's two lengths plus the three she was too far back in the first furlong, which is five lengths, the max I said in my opening line, and that's assuming everything goes right which we know it doesn't in a horse race. So back to three lengths. Not twenty that the ATR guys are saying. Terrible analysis work focusing on her being 30 lenghts off the front. None of the front four finished in the front three, they went far too fast. She should have won, but not by much.
 
Gamla Stan said:
I've always liked him and he's done me a couple of good turns but he had no form to be a credible candidate for a group one. Where would he have come in the Arc? The Lasix and the blinkers made the difference.

I agree he's a talented horse but he's won a very soft grade one where the favourite didn't perform.
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...and you know that, how? You can compare that to the other group ones he's run in? This is an improving horse who has been slow to mature - he's still essentially a baby and if you'd seen the animal, you'd realise that. So what if the blinkers helped - does the application of blinkers nullify any credentials to win a group one? Don't talk daft. As for the lasix - he's shown no need for racing on it at home so far as we know, I'd imagine that Meehan put him on it as he could - why wouldn't you take that advantage if it were offered to you?

Has it not occurred to anyone that no animal has group one winning form until it......wins a group one? So to state that "he had no form to be a credible candidate for a group one" is absolute crap, to put it bluntly. It was his first attempt at a group one, having won a group three last time out.

The horse won the race, he's proven he's a decent animal, get over it!!!
 
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Shadz, I like the horse, I'm just saying he's won one of the worst middle distance Group Ones of the season where of the only two credible contenders, one didn't stay (Debussy) and one didn't fire (Behkabad).

I hope he goes on from this to greater things but the race he won tonight was hardly any better than the race he won at Newbury.
 
In fairness, Steve Millar did show that although she was nearly a furlong off the front runners, Cantoris, she was some 15 off the BLAME group in the back straight. As for missing the kick, she never rushes out and is always held at the back, so that would be irrelevant - that's her preferred style. But what I think Smith didn't take into account was the quality of a multiple Group winner in BLAME - he might well have thought it okay to lay off the same distance as always, but that didn't seem to be the best plan. The late switch coming into the straight from being quite close behind him to the outside (again, a traditionally favoured position of hers, but one expects a jockey to be able to make alternative decisions) cost her some time, surely? I think if she'd followed him through the gap, staying along the rails and then quickly popped alongside him, she might have grabbed 1st place. But she was allowed to dawdle or find her feet, whatever, for 2f, and a quarter mile's a lot to make up when the rest are speeding away.

By the way, I thought it was her debut on dirt, the fuss ATR was making about it. In fact, it's her third time, so she didn't need to be so careful and picky as she was once out of the stalls.
 
I had to lay Zenyatta for a place when I saw her behaviour at the start.I honestly
think she didn't lose anything in defeat.
 
I think Shadz that it was the manner in which he won that might put people off. He was struggling before the home turn and the winner looked to be in front all the way up the straight before being outstayed. A grade one is a grade one, you'r right. And everyone has to win their first. But a rapid improver tends to have a series of 1s beside their name when they move from group three to group one company. I have no interest in or knowledge of this horse or his physical make-up, just suggesting why people might think that way. And until he wins another one, those doubters will continue to doubt, as you will continue to hold your view that he's a bloody good horse.
 
Does that matter Gamla?? On paper, he's won the Breeders Cup Turf. Besides which, that's assuming that Behkabad didn't fire and Debussy didn't stay which might not be a given. Anyway, he did it and he'll go on to prove it wasn't a fluke I'm sure - not that it matters, it's in black and white now anyway!!! - but the initial comments on this thread about how it was only the drugs, the result was a headscratcher and the horse was one of the most over-rated horses for a long time were daft and well over the top, as well as derogatory.
 
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She's done that 'dancing' for a good dozen other races, though, Luke - in fact, it's on YouTube! I don't think she's lost anything, either, but I do think she could've had a perfect record if she hadn't been allowed to tiddle about for 2f, and if Smith had figured that 15l is a helluva lot to make up given the speed of the 'hopeful' field, allowing that the front runners were going too fast. I thought American jocks were brilliant at judging pace and timing? It seems to have deserted him tonight, perhaps the final race's stress got to him.
 
Cantoris - if one of mine got a ride like that in a 47 - 65 at Tramore I'd shoot the jockey! Firstly for leaving it so far put of it's ground and secondly for trying to cut it into four quarters with his whip!!! If it was one of yours you would feel the same I'd imagine!
 
Most of them get rides like that in maiden hurdles at Tramore, only they stay 30L adrift the whole way round by design.
 
A very nasty, cynical mind might almost think the jockey had laid her to win him a truckload... but I haven't got such a nasty, cynical mind, of course. :whistle:
 
On The Bridle said:
Cantoris - if one of mine got a ride like that in a 47 - 65 at Tramore I'd shoot the jockey! Firstly for leaving it so far put of it's ground and secondly for trying to cut it into four quarters with his whip!!! If it was one of yours you would feel the same I'd imagine!
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don't get me wrong, it was a bad ride. And if I was the owner or a punter I'd be pissed off. but what annoys me is the song and dance ATR made out of it in their analysis. You'd swear she'd turned around when the gates opened and run the other way. Smith's error cost her a few lengths, not 20 or 30 as Chappers would have you believe. Is he seriously suggesting that Zenyatta would have won that race by more than five lengths if everyhting went right? So five lengths is Smith's error. I've seen a lot worse riding errors, like Luska Lad not going quick enough.
 
krizon said:
In fairness, Steve Millar did show that although she was nearly a furlong off the front runners, Cantoris, she was some 15 off the BLAME group in the back straight.
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The front runners made no difference and should not be considered in the analysis other than they ensured a scorching pace. And not sure if she was 15 lengths behind Blame down the back. Blame was about four or five in front of the second last horse and another five or seven to the mare. So 9 to 12 lengths in my book. Get out the measuring tape :D
 
Calm down, dear, calm down... I was agreeing with your point made earlier about ATR mentioning a huge gulf between ZENYATTA and the front runners. As they weren't serious contenders at the pace they were going, yes, that's irrelevant. What wasn't irrelevant to the result (for her) was the distance of the second, seriously-intended group. I can only go by the race caller and the analysis, for what it's worth, and my own eye/s. But if you're implying that Smith's error is five lengths, that's a monster winning margin! She could, in my very 'umble opinion, have won by a good length or two if she hadn't been allowed to dawdle as much as she did from the gates to the back stretch. Now we know that Smith's excuse was not based on her 'looking wrong' (although it seems a few of us thought she did), then what excuse has he got?

The thing is that she had had to hurry up to close the absurd distance she was left behind from the start in order to get anywhere near enough to a fast-enough second group, then be shuffled instead of railing behind BLAME in the final straight. I think that not following BLAME along the rails and then just sliding upsides him in the last 1f probably put the top hat on the loss of the race, but the number of races I've ridden comes to a very large zero, so it's all conjecture.

I think Smith got it wrong on three counts: allowing her a far too tardy start and distant first 2f; not closing right up to the second group in the back straight; changing her from being close enough to the final straight rail to the outside in order to challenge way too late. Was he complacent? Possibly. Was he inept? Yes, he got his first quarter-mile hopelessly wrong and there was no need to shuffle her outside in the final straight.

But what the heck, she's still a fabulous animal, full of grace and style, and it's been great to be able to see her goodbye race finished with her usual panache.
 
At least she came home safe [Breeders Cup scares me]. Whatever the jockey did or didn't do, feel chuffed to have been allowed to take part in the story that is Zenyatta, even if it is only from listening to it on the radio and crying a lot. She's still the Queen in my eyes.
 
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Filly and Mare Turf

Anticipation: A chance to see the best of the yanks vs Midday, who has had a fine season and a decent Japanese horse. No complete stars on show, however 3

Enjoyment: A blanket finish, with Queally doing amazingly well to wrestle a clearly over-the-top Midday into second place behind the long-odds winner. 4

In Retrospect: The favourite ran well, considering her season, the sharp track and the way the race panned out. Bit of a hollow feeling, given I had never heard of the winner! 3
 
"At least there's Uncle Mo." Gamla, that is hysterical! :lol::lol: Is that the most parodied part of a film ever? Marvellous - people are so fast with these things, too!
 
Zenyatta retired - not the horse some would have us think (or at least she never proved it) but she really still was an exceptional beast of a mare who really had won me over by the Breeders Cup meeting. Long happy retirement with lots of champions please!
 
I'd be more than happy to have her, and wouldn't give a flying fart what people thought! Let's hope she lets down happily into blissed-out motherhood. Have connections hinted at who the first date's likely to be?
 
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