Brexit

Brexit, Stay or Leave.

  • Stay

    Votes: 28 59.6%

  • Leave

    Votes: 19 40.4%
  • Total voters
    47
Grasshopper said:
The bit I don't get about the immigration argument, and its apparent influence over the Referendum result, is that immigration from the EU is significantly lower than immigration from the Commonwealth (particularly the Indian sub-continent) and elsewhere. Not only are the numbers smaller from the EU, none of these other countries offer the reciprocal benefits of free access that the EU does, so you would think it was the 'least bad' form of immigration?

If immigration was really such an issue, surely - one would think - the 'other' type of immigration would have warranted more discussion - yet it was rarely, if ever, mentioned.

Perhaps this was because it wasn't relevant to the EU dialogue? Perhaps its influence has been massively over-stated? Or perhaps the 'other' kind of immigrants are next in the cross-hairs?
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because we have to accept any pikey or tit from Europe but can pick and choose from elsewhere

say we need a brain surgeon and the choice is between

a. A Romanian with Parkinson's and a drink problem

b. A Nobel prize winner from india

which are we compelled to take ?

im not overly fussed about immigration although I can fully appreciate misgivings in certain areas and have previously highlighted one in my experience. Also this might not be seen as fair or right, i would wager that most Brits would certainly feel a lot easier working alongside someone from India or Trinidad , let alone Australia, than Slovakia. They probably wouldn't know or really care if they were immigrants or not.
 
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The question in that survey was "regain control over borders"

that's very different from anti immigration.

Ask that question across every state in Western Europe and I wonder what answer you would get?
 
Not sure I agree that it's quite that cut-and-dried, Clivex, but I get your point.

On a slightly different note, it is claimed that non-EU immigration is more managed, but is that really the case? Logic would dictate that the immigration numbers in a free-for-all (the EU model), would be higher than those in a controlled scenario (the non-EU model) - yet the opposite is true. It's completely counter-intuitive.

Surely the effectiveness of any controls which are being applied, is open to question, if the statistics are to be believed?
 
Grasshopper said:
Not sure I agree that it's quite that cut-and-dried, Clivex, but I get your point.

On a slightly different note, it is claimed that non-EU immigration is more managed, but is that really the case? Logic would dictate that the immigration numbers in a free-for-all (the EU model), would be higher than those in a controlled scenario (the non-EU model) - yet the opposite is true. It's completely counter-intuitive.

Surely the effectiveness of any controls which are being applied, is open to question, if the statistics are to be believed?
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because if it was a free for all for the rest of the world you wouldn't be able to fcking move here would you?

dunno and I'm bored by this

owen smith is a pillock
 
Grasshopper said:
The bit I don't get about the immigration argument, and its apparent influence over the Referendum result, is that immigration from the EU is significantly lower than immigration from the Commonwealth (particularly the Indian sub-continent) and elsewhere. Not only are the numbers smaller from the EU, none of these other countries offer the reciprocal benefits of free access that the EU does, so you would think it was the 'least bad' form of immigration?

If immigration was really such an issue, surely - one would think - the 'other' type of immigration would have warranted more discussion - yet it was rarely, if ever, mentioned.

Perhaps this was because it wasn't relevant to the EU dialogue? Perhaps its influence has been massively over-stated? Or perhaps the 'other' kind of immigrants are next in the cross-hairs?
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Because we had that argument 40 years ago and people have got used to it, whereas the influx of workers from Central Europe (or what we call Eastern Europe) is a relatively new thing.
 
I talked about the Leave campaigns arguments implying non E.U migration was better or 'preferable' to that of E.U migration before the vote.

This is disingenuous at best, and quite offensive to Eastern European totty at worst.
 
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simmo said:
Because we had that argument 40 years ago and people have got used to it, whereas the influx of workers from Central Europe (or what we call Eastern Europe) is a relatively new thing.
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Aye, that probably explains it right enough, simmo.
 
Grasshopper said:
Aye, that probably explains it right enough, simmo.
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Don't agree

eastern european "immigration" is as often as not short term. Som would say it's a case of come here, undercut and grab what you can (NHS) before pissing off again. whether that's a good thing or not, immigration from east Africa and India was primarily here for the duration.

as I pointed out its not just undercut plumbers but many younger British who are learning professional services squeezed out by qualifieds from Eastern Europe. Seen it and it doesn't feel good.
 
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High Court has this morning ruled the UK government must consult Parliament before triggering Article 50 to leave EU.
 
I'm confused ( I know - it doesn't take much!) so the government who have accepted brexit and are poised to set the ball rolling after cheltenham ( jolly decent of them!) have now got to ask parliament if they are allowed to do what they are planning to do as voted for by us lot, the great unwashed ?


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I think a referendum isn't actually legally binding [or something like that]. Which the Government should have known anyway. I'm happier today than I have been for a long time; all I need now is for Trump to be wiped out....[oh, and for Freddy Tylicki to be ok....]
 
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Hope you're still happy if it causes a general election, and with the spectre of Nigel Farage as next Prime Minister.
 
trudij said:
I'm confused ( I know - it doesn't take much!) so the government who have accepted brexit and are poised to set the ball rolling after cheltenham ( jolly decent of them!) have now got to ask parliament if they are allowed to do what they are planning to do as voted for by us lot, the great unwashed ?


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Exactly! Our local MP is a remain but her constituents voted leave so if she doesn't vote in favour of starting the process then she is not representing the people who elected her. why have a referendum but then put it to Parliament? And she's a bolshy cow so I bet she votes against if it's a free vote.
 
That sounds like Anna Sourbry

In fairness Anna is one of quite few who you might regard as capable of digging in. Ken Clarke has already said he'd vote to remain because his constituents did (in truth he's got lucky with his excuse there as he'd vote remain regardless).

Then there's those remainers who are rotting on the backbenchers with no chance of a return to power so long as May is PM (the revengers) Nicky Morgan and George Osborne for instance

I'm still a little puzzled why the general consensus seems to be that it would pass in parliament. 15 dental appointments doesn't seem like a lot to me, or even 8 voting against (assuming the opposition can hold their discipline of course)

I suspect the only way she solves this is through a general election, but even then there's enough remain support to deliver a hung parliament with the liberals as the big beneficiary. Would be interesting to see what UKIP did in a general if the Tories stood on a Brexit ticket? Would they even contest it? I suspect they'd field candidates against known remain sympathisers, cross party
 
I think the Remainers will seek amendments and thus delay the whole process indefinitely and as regards approving the leave process the House Of Lords will be more obstinate as they don't have to answer to voters.
 
I wrote to my MP [Heather Wheeler] several weeks ago and told her that I expected her to represent my 'remainer' views, re brexit. She won't, of course. She also supported Loathsome for party leader. I wish Anna Soubry was my MP. I think the worlds gone mad. If I didn't have children and grandchildren living nearby I'd go and live in the back of beyond and have no contact with the outside world except for my Coral Connect account.
 
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