Cartoons Of The Prophet Muhammad

What that (rather long) item above says is that you can't get married to a Danish citizen if you are an asylum seeker. Which is mentioned in the "Geting married in Denmark" link.
 
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i note from looking at the placards the protestors were carrying (on channel 3 news) that whilst they were wildly protesting about their rights to tolerence and banning of anything that vaigly critiscises or pokes fun at their religon the protestors are not adverse to carrying banners that insults other religons

some even carrying the neo nazi comments about jews controlling the whole of the western media


perhaps they have been studying the protocols of the elders of zion that the bastion of religous tolerence saudi arabia distributes so freely
 
Protest Marches in the UK are usually well populated with invited guests and some uninvited guests.
 

Recently the foreign ministers of seventeen Islamic countries renewed calls for the Danish government to punish those responsible for the cartoons, and to ensure that such cartoons are not published again.
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Good link to wikipedia, rumours. I was taken by the above sentence in the article. Unfortunately it's one of the few statements in the article that is not sourced or linked to further info. Can anyone confirm whether it's accurate? It doesn't bode well if the foreign ministers of 17 Islamic countries do not recognise the principles of free speech and independence of the media by which the Danish government are constrained.
 


Protest Marches in the UK are usually well populated with invited guests and some uninvited guests
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the meaning of this statement is???


can you name any other protest marches that have openly included neo nazi slogans


even the nefarous british movement/british national party ensure their followers refrain from openly parading banners with neo nazi comments on (invited or otherwise)


and the point of these protesters is??

was it lack of respect shown to their religon by a couple of cartoons

they want the same rights as others in terms of religous freedom ??


your postings sound like a person who will accept any excuse for the events over these cartoons valid or otherwise
 


It doesn't bode well if the foreign ministers of 17 Islamic countries do not recognise the principles of free speech and independence of the media by which the Danish government are constrained.
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why on earth would they want to understand or recognise the principles of free speech that the danish or indeed any other western goverment is bound by

they have enough apologists working on their behalf

perhaps the leaders of the 17 islamic goverments could show the danish goverment on how to behave by banning offensive (at least to jews and christians) materials that are published in some of their members newspapers
 
Originally posted by rumoursabound@Feb 6 2006, 11:50 AM
Thanks Brian.

For your perusal:

Having read your link above,i am not sure if this is salient or not.

17 January 2002

A new policy for foreigners
The Government’s policy for foreigners rests on three fundamental considerations.
Denmark’s commitments under international conventions must be honoured.
The number of foreigners coming into Denmark must be restricted, and stricter requirements as to their duty to support themselves must be introduced.
The refugees and immigrants already living in Denmark must be better integrated and get a job faster. Therefore, the incentive to seek work themselves must be enhanced.
On this basis, the Government presents the following proposals for discussion with various players, such as the local councils, which play a major role in carrying out the policies on foreigners and integration. As mentioned in the Government Platform, the Government will introduce bills by 1 March 2002 at the latest.
Asylum and refugees
Fewer refugees to Denmark
The Government will abolish the concept of de facto refugees. Only individuals entitled to protection under international conventions will be allowed to live in Denmark. This will mean an essential and fundamental tightening of the conditions for obtaining asylum, which the Government finds necessary. It is important to approximate the asylum practices of the EU member states. The Government will therefore support the work for common asylum rules in the EU.
Today, Denmark recognises a number of countries as safe third countries that do not, in accordance with the 1951 Geneva Convention, return asylum-seekers to countries where they risk persecution. Asylum-seekers can be refused entry and returned to safe third countries without first having their asylum applications examined. The Government will work for approval of more countries as safe third countries, making it possible to refuse entry to more asylum-seekers.
The Government will abolish the possibility of applying for asylum from embassies abroad.
Refugees are not to become immigrants
Today, refugees are issued with permanent residence permits already after three years. It must be the principal rule that refugees should return to their countries of origin. The Government will therefore change the rules so that a permanent residence permit is only granted after at least seven years in Denmark.
Refugees with no permanent residence permits are to be returned to their countries of origin if the situation changes so that they will no longer be persecuted.
If refugees who have been granted asylum in Denmark because they have ties with family in Denmark marry a person from another country, it must be assessed whether the ties with Denmark are still strong enough. If not, the foreigner is to be returned to the spouse’s country of origin.
Refugees travelling to their country of origin on holiday will automatically have their cases reassessed. If they are no longer persecuted in their countries of origin, their residence permits must be revoked. Therefore, all refugees must have a travel restriction entered in their passports so that they can only travel to their countries of origin after having applied to the authorities to have the travel restriction lifted.
More stringent processing of asylum applications
Nobody who hides from the authorities will have an application for asylum in Denmark examined. This means that it will not be possible to go underground while one’s application is being examined.
Asylum-seekers whose applications for asylum are refused are to leave the country immediately and not, as today, only after 15 days.
The manifestly-unfounded procedure is to be applied in more cases. Cases considered by the Danish Immigration Service to be manifestly unfounded, but incapable of determination by the manifestly-unfounded procedure, are to be determinable by the chairman of the Refugee Board on his own.
It must be made possible to carry out the expedited manifestly-unfounded procedure in one day – for example in case of entry of a large number of asylum-seekers of a nationality normally unable to obtain asylum.
The composition of the Refugee Board is to be changed. Today the Board has five members: A judge, two ministerial representatives, a representative appointed by the General Council of the Bar and Law Society and a representative appointed by the Danish Refugee Council. In future, the Board will only have three members: A judge, a ministerial representative and a representative appointed by the General Council of the Bar and Law Society.
Control with foreigners living as tolerated residents
Foreigners whose applications for a residence permit have been refused due to serious crime will not receive the usual social benefits, and legal authority to order them to reside at the Center Sandholm should be provided. In any circumstances they will have a duty to report to the police. If they contravene the duty to report, it must be possible to detain them.
Increased demands for self-maintenance
Foreigners coming to Denmark must support themselves.
As a point of departure, foreigners who have not been issued with a permanent residence permit must be returned if they cannot manage without public maintenance.
In all cases of reunification of spouses, a maintenance condition must be made.
It will be possible to make reunification of spouses conditional on the provision of a financial security of DKK 50,000 to cover any future maintenance expenses. It must be made possible to enforce claims for repayment of maintenance expenses, etc., borne by public funds.
It will be a condition that the spouse living in Denmark has not received any social benefits for a certain period before the reunification, provided that the spouse in Denmark is capable of working.
Special rules apply to refugees and persons with a protection status.
Family reunification
Fewer family reunifications in Denmark
There will be no statutory right to reunification with a spouse.
Basically, no reunification of spouses will be granted if one of the spouses is under 24 years of age.
The generally more lenient access to reunification with refugee spouses will be abolished in all cases where the marriage was only entered into after the flight to Denmark. In such cases, reunification with a spouse can be refused pursuant to the same rules as those that apply to reunification with a Danish spouse.
The condition that the spouses must have ties with Denmark must be extended to apply also to Danes living in Denmark so that also in these cases reunification with a spouse takes place in the country with which the aggregate ties are greatest. The assessment of whether the condition of ties is satisfied will emphasise several factors, including the ties of the person living in Denmark with family in the intended spouse’s country of origin. When one of or both the parents of the person living in Denmark have come here from the same country as the intended spouse, the person living in Denmark will often have such ties with family in that country that the condition of ties is not satisfied.
The current access to family reunification with parents over 60 years of age will be abolished.
In family reunification cases, the local council will be asked to furnish all information of importance to the family reunification case so that the Danish Immigration Service can take it into account when examining the application for family reunification.
Marriage conditions will be tightened
The general conditions of the Marriage Act for entering into marriage will be tightened so that both spouses have to be lawfully resident in Denmark. This means that persons with unlawful or procedural residence in Denmark – such as asylum-seekers – cannot get married in Denmark.
Combat against marriages of convenience
The marriage authorities must make known to all married couples that marriage in Denmark does not automatically mean that the foreign spouse can obtain a residence permit for Denmark.
If a spouse is not living permanently in Denmark, the couple has to sign a declaration before they marry stating that they are familiar with the family reunification rules and that they know that a marriage of convenience does not confer a right of reunification with a spouse.
The marriage authorities are to report cases of suspected marriages of convenience to the Danish Immigration Service so that such information can be included in the examination by the Danish Immigration Service of any subsequent application for reunification with a spouse.
Tightened conditions for permanent residence permits
It will apply generally to all foreigners that they can only obtain a permanent residence permit after seven years. This means that refugees can be returned if the situation in their countries of origin changes within seven years so that they no longer risk persecution. Also, persons reunited with their family can be returned, for example if they are divorced from the person living in Denmark with whom they were reunited before the seven years are out.
Foreigners who have committed serious crime, such as drug-related crime, people smuggling, homicide, aggravated assault and violence, and rape will not be able to obtain a permanent residence permit. Foreigners who have committed other crimes and have not been expelled will only be able to obtain a permanent residence permit after a prolonged waiting period. The waiting period will be of at least five years if the foreigner was sentenced to imprisonment. The waiting period will increase with the severity of the crime committed by the foreigner.
It will also be a condition for a permanent residence permit that the applicant has no debt due to any public authorities.
Stricter enforcement is required of the condition that the foreigner must have completed an introduction programme offered to him or her in order to obtain a permanent residence permit. This tightening will be effected in connection with the review of the Integration Act in the parliamentary year 2002-2003.
Better control of public benefits
The Government wants the immigration authorities in future to disclose information on the foreigners’ basis of residence to the local councils to prevent them from paying social benefits to ineligible foreigners.
The Government will change the rules on assistance for the maintenance of children living abroad so that the family allowance can only be obtained for children living in Denmark.
Recruitment of qualified labour
The Government will introduce a Green Card-like scheme making it easier to obtain a residence permit for people who have obtained work in fields short of qualified labour.
International initiatives
The Government will work to enhance aid to neighbouring regions of countries suffering from conflicts or civil war. In the further reorganisation of the Danish aid policy, the Minister for Foreign Affairs will draft a proposal for Denmark’s aid to countries that have experienced a large influx of refugees within the framework of the Government’s new focus on the action against poverty in the Danish aid policy. Proposed initiatives will concern both the bilateral aid to single countries and the aid through international organisations and NGOs.
During the Danish EU Presidency, Denmark will work for enhanced understanding for the importance of a neighbouring region strategy. In that connection, Denmark will ensure continuation of the work in the EU concerning the conclusion of agreements under which third countries undertake to take back their own nationals and other persons who have previously resided in such country for a certain period if their applications for asylum are refused, and the like.
Developing countries who will not accept expelled own nationals or nationals refused entry will be deprived of any Danish aid.
Integration in the labour market
More people are to work, and fewer people are to be on public maintenance. It must pay to work, and the employment policy will be adapted to effectively motivate and equip the individual person for ordinary jobs in the labour market. This applies to foreigners coming to Denmark, and it applies to Danes.
The Government will introduce an action plan “More People in Work” next autumn in the light of an analysis of the overall employment policy. Foreigners coming to Denmark have resources not used actively today in the Danish labour market. Integration into the Danish society is best effected through employment ties, while a larger influx to the workforce is needed in the coming years. The action plan will therefore have a special section on further initiatives aimed at the labour market for “Immigrants in Employment”.
The increased requirements of self-maintenance will provide a strong incentive for foreigners to enter the labour market.
Qualifying principle for full cash benefits
As a point of departure, foreigners will not be maintained by public funds. In some cases it is necessary to deviate from this principle. This applies above all to the foreigners who obtain a status of protection.
In these cases the Government will introduce a qualifying principle for cash benefits so that only persons who have resided in Denmark for at least seven out of the preceding eight years are entitled to full cash benefits. Persons coming to Denmark in future will be subject to the new rules. This applies to both foreigners and Danes.
The Government finds that an adjustment of the rates has long been needed. So far, typically, newly arrived foreigners have received such high cash benefits that the earned income that they could otherwise obtain has been far from measuring up to this level of maintenance. With the current rates of cash benefits, two providers who both receive cash benefits receive a total amount of DKK 21,044 per month before tax. If only one of the spouses gets a job, the monthly wage before tax must be DKK 22,874 in order to correspond to the couple’s total cash benefits. The wages of about two-thirds of adult wage earners in the industrial sector are below this level.
If various other benefits, such as special assistance for high housing expenses, etc., housing subsidies and reduced payment by parents for child care institutions, are taken into account, the wage has to be even higher to reach the cash benefit level.
It is important for the Government that the future rates are at a level that means that it will always pay to leave the public maintenance system and get an ordinary job.
Persons falling within the new rates during the seven-year period will, as a minimum, be certain of benefits corresponding to the level of the benefits granted to students in Denmark for their maintenance.
The new rates and disposable amounts appear from the table below. The disposable amount is the monthly amount available to the households in the selected family types for clothing, food and other daily necessities after payment of tax, housing expenses, child care institution, etc.
Current rates, new rates during the seven-year period and disposable amounts, 2002-PL
Examples of family types Current rules During seven-year period Disposable amount per month under current rules Disposable amount per month during seven-year period
Person living at home under 25 years of age 2,463 2,103 2,463 2,103
Person living away from home under 25 years of age 5,103 4,231 1,938 1,403
Single non-provider over 25 years of age 1) 7,919 5,103 3,770 2,138
Couple, non-providers over 25 years of age 15,838 8,462 7,688 3,306
Single with 1 child 1) 10,522 6,379 7,589 5,442
Single with 2 children 1) 10,522 7,655 9,936 8,433
Couple with 2 children 21,044 10,578 11,378 8,208
Couple with 4 children 2) 21,044 10,578 13,256 9,669
1) For singles over 25 years of age, the rate during the seven-year period corresponds to the current cash benefit rate for persons living away from home under 25 years of age.
2) A provider supplement (family allowance) is granted to the household for each child, the maximum being two provider supplements per household.
During the seven-year qualifying period, the large majority of family types will be sure of maintenance benefits constituting amounts in the order of 50-70 per cent of current cash benefit rates.
As the table shows, the incentive to take work is considerably enhanced by the new rates. The new rates have been fixed at a level at which, for all family types, it should be a financial advantage if only one of them accepts a job at the minimum wage level.
To further increase the incentive to seek work – including part-time work – people will be allowed to keep a larger part of their earned income during the seven-year qualifying period before their benefits are subject to deduction. The cash benefits will only be reduced by the part of the ordinary work income that lies beyond DKK 28 per hour against DKK 11.50 under the current rules. So in future it will also pay to take a part-time job.
The Government will also change the rules for rehabilitation benefits so that persons subject to the seven-year rule will not obtain a higher income by entering the rehabilitation system rather than receiving the new, lower cash benefit rates.
The reduced rates are an essential first step towards increasing the incentive to work for persons who have stayed in Denmark for less than seven out of the preceding eight years. Despite the reduced rates, families with children will in many cases continue to have rather large amounts at their disposal after payment of fixed expenses. This is due to other benefits, such as housing subsidies, child allowance and reduced child care institution prices. The Government will therefore review these rules carefully in connection with the analysis of the overall employment policy for the purpose of “More People in Work”.
Better introduction for newly arrived foreigners
It is crucial that the foreigners who receive public maintenance are quickly introduced to the principle on which the Danish maintenance system is based. The individual has rights and duties, and in return he or she is sure of a basis of maintenance until self-maintenance is possible through ties with the labour market. Therefore, an individual agreement must be concluded between the foreigner involved and the local council. The agreement must clearly state the elements that are included in the introduction course and the demands for completion that are made on the foreigner. The agreement concluded will thus describe both the needs of the individual for, for example, Danish courses, upgrading courses or job training, as well as sanctions in the form of reduction of benefits in case of absence.
The municipal introduction programmes for newly arrived foreigners must thus be made more work-related. It must be clear from the start that the goal is that each foreigner enables himself or herself to work and finds a job. The duties of the local council and the newly arrived foreigner must appear in detail, and it must be clarified what sanctions apply to the newly arrived foreigner in case of absence without good cause.
The Government will discuss with the local councils how to provide better incentives for the local councils to carry out an efficient activation effort.
The Danish courses must be improved and made more work-related. The Government will check whether the financing system can be reorganised to provide better incentives for pupils, language centres and local councils to carry out efficient Danish courses.
The qualifications of the newly arrived foreigner must be clarified more easily and faster. This must be done, for example, by testing their working capacity in enterprises, by courses in educational institutions and by approval of qualifications at the Danish Centre for Assessment of Foreign Qualifications.
Effort for better integration of children and young people
The Government will propose an amendment to the Act on Independent Schools to make it clear that also these school must prepare the pupils for living in a society with freedom and democracy, and that the tuition must strengthen the respect of human rights and fundamental freedoms. The Government will also enhance the inspection of the schools.
The Government will discuss with the local councils how to ensure that all children can speak Danish when they start in school.
Nationality
The conditions for obtaining Danish nationality must be tightened to correspond more accurately to society’s expectations of the individual applicant’s efforts to become part of Danish society.
The applicants’ knowledge of Danish will be more emphasised. It will be a condition that applicants can speak and read Danish so that they can have a job and function actively as citizens. Another condition for obtaining Danish nationality is knowledge of the Danish society, principles of law and values.
Fulfilment of these conditions must be proved by a certificate from a special test. The test can be done at the national language centres independently of courses, but against a fee to cover the costs of the test.
The current possibility of exemption from the language condition for persons over 65 years of age will be abolished.
All applicants for Danish nationality must sign a statement declaring that they will observe Danish legislation and honour fundamental Danish principles of law, including the human rights.
It will become more difficult for persons who have committed crimes to obtain Danish nationality. Crime resulting in two years’ imprisonment or more will completely preclude the person from Danish nationality. For persons sentenced to a lesser punishment, the waiting period will be extended compared to current rules. The waiting period will be at least two years and will increase with the severity of the crime committed by the foreigner.
It will be a main rule that foreigners can only obtain Danish nationality when they have had a permanent residence permit for at least two years. This means that foreigners can normally only obtain Danish nationality after nine years. However, stateless persons, refugees and persons married to Danes will only need a permanent residence permit for one year. This means that these persons can normally obtain Danish nationality after eight years.
It will no longer be possible for a person to obtain Danish nationality if he or she is in debt to public authorities.
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^^^Is this the longest post of the year so far? Evens says it is (5/6 to PDJ)
 
I think what he means, prince, and if he doesn't it's certainly true, is that these "spontaneous" demonstratione are in fact very well organised. Here is an example:

Rioting with well-planned spontaneity

Rory McCarthy in Beirut
Monday February 6, 2006
The Guardian

It was one of those unpredictable Lebanese Sunday mornings. The ski slopes in the mountains overlooking Beirut would have been crowded with skiers enjoying the brilliant winter sunshine. Walkers were out along the Corniche, strolling in designer tracksuits. Downtown, the chic restaurants were preparing for lunchtime. And there were a few men on scooters riding around town broadcasting an imminent protest.

It wasn't long before the heavily-laden coaches and minivans began to arrive from Beirut and the rest of Lebanon. They were all full of young, often bearded men who wore headbands and carried identical flags with calligraphic inscriptions in Arabic such as: "There is no god but God and Mohammad is his Prophet" and "O Nation of Muhammad, Wake Up."

There were soon as many as 20,000 of them filling the streets. They walked up past the Christian quarter of Gemmayze and into the even more genteel Christian area of Achrafieh, gathering not far from the Danish embassy, the target of their protest. One man waved a placard in English that said: "Damn your beliefs and your liberty." Another carried a sign saying: "Whoever insults Prophet Muhammad is to be killed."
The police seemed to know the demonstrators were coming and had turned out in force with barriers, barbed wire fences and several large fire trucks. Just a day earlier, the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus had been torched by a furious mob, repeating the violent protests that have spread across the world from Gaza to Afghanistan to London. On Saturday night, anticipating trouble, the Danish diplomatic staff in Beirut flew home.

The mob stood in the street, chanting their fierce condemnation of the Danish cartoons that spawned this rapidly-spreading crisis. By 11am, the Lebanese police and army were firing tear gas at the crowd. The protesters threw volleys of stones. Some stuffed cotton wool into their nostrils to stifle the effect of the gas.

One group overturned a car and set it alight. Sunni clerics in robes tried to calm the young men down. They were ignored. One cleric, Ibrahim Ibrahim, said his pleas were met with stones and insults. "They are hooligans," he said.

The mob grew fiercer, and finally the police withdrew. As they moved back, the crowd smashed their way into the building housing the Danish embassy and set it ablaze. From the burning building they hung a banner that read: "We are ready to sacrifice our children for you, O Prophet Muhammad." By now dozens of people had been wounded or arrested and at least one person was killed, a protester apparently caught up in the fire at the embassy building.

The many politicians representing Lebanon's fractured sectarian society sensed this was suddenly a situation a long way out of control. "It is the work of infiltrators," said Saiad Hariri, a prominent Sunni politician. "These acts have nothing to do with the Prophet. They are harming Muslims."

On the street, the riot began to take a more sectarian turn. Throwing the metal barriers and barbed wire aside they chased the police up into the narrow alleys of Achrafieh, well beyond the embassy and deep into the Christian quarter. They smashed dozens of parked cars and tossed bricks through the windows of the furniture boutiques and hair salons. Others overturned two police cars and threw rocks through the windows of the St Maron church.

"What is the guilt of the citizens of Achrafieh for caricatures published in Denmark?" said Charles Rizk, the justice minister and a Christian. "This sabotage should stop."

Asad Harmoush, a leader of Jamaía Islamiya, the conservative Sunni Muslim group that had helped organise the protest, tried to deflect the blame. "We can't control tens of thousands of people. We tried to limit the harm and we extend our excuses to our brothers in Achrafieh and to the security forces. There has to be an investigation. Obviously there were infiltrators."

And then in the early afternoon, as suddenly as it had all begun, it ended. The leaders of the mob turned to the angry young men beside them and told them it was time to leave. Obediently the crowd thinned out and began walking back to the buses, even as the Danish embassy continued to burn. By 3pm there wasn't a single protester left on the street. Later, the Lebanese interior minister, Hassan Sabei, announced his resignation.

The police returned in force, and with nothing to do they began taking photographs of each other in front of the burned-out building. Firemen hosed down the blaze. Crowds of Filipino maids returned from their day off back to their jobs in the homes of the wealthy, while the wealthy were out patching up their cars. Dozens of street sweepers hosed down the roads and collected the debris of the day.
 
Free speech is wonderful,if one engages his/her brain before indulging in it.

IMHO the Danish News Paper Editor had a fair idea that printing the Cartoons would cause a bit of trouble with the believers.

Cause & Effect.

Had the Cartoons not been published,the world would be a lot safer tonight.

There would have been no marches in London.

There would have been 5 fatalities less in Afghanistan.

Several foreign buildings would still be intact.

-------
 
i doubt if anyone danish editor or even your goodslef could have forecast such an outcry over a few cartoons

normally a couple of bricks through the windows of the said publishers windows would have sufficed even the most ardent religous fanatic

worldwide "spontanous " demonstrations the burning of buildings and the calling of acts of terror and 5 dead people would i think be considered by many a little ott in the circumstances

and what else pray would you ban to avoid upsetting their sensibilities
 
i think you will find that germanys laws

on rights or lack of rights for foreigners (whichever way you look at it)

are far more stringent than denmarks
 
Originally posted by rumoursabound@Feb 6 2006, 05:38 PM
IMHO the Danish News Paper Editor had a fair idea that printing the Cartoons would cause a bit of trouble with the believers.
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Cartoon conflicts

To describe the clash over the Danish depictions of the prophet as one between freedom and dogma will only fan the flames, says Tariq Ramadan

Monday February 6, 2006

In Copenhagen last October, as demonstrations provoked by the Danish satirical cartoons about Islam were starting, a reporter from the newspaper that published them told me how intensely the editorial staff had debated whether to go ahead, how uncomfortable many of them had been about the whole issue and, at the same time, how surprised they had been by the strong reaction from Muslims and the Arab embassies. At the time, however, the tension seemed likely to remain within Danish borders.

To Danish Muslims denouncing this as an instance of racism - a provocation capitalised upon by the ever expanding far right in the country - my advice was to avoid reacting emotionally, to try to explain quietly why these cartoons were offensive and neither to demonstrate nor to risk activating mass movements that could prove impossible to master. At the time, a resolution seemed to be at hand.
One might ask, then, why it is that three months later, some find it in their interests to pour fuel on the fire of a controversy, with tragic and potentially uncontrollable consequences? A few Danish Muslims visited Middle Eastern countries and ramped up the resentment: governments in the region, only too happy to prove their attachment to Islam - to bolster their Islamic legitimacy in the eyes of the public - took advantage of this piece of good fortune and presented themselves as champions of a great cause. On the other side, the controversy was just what some politicians, intellectuals and journalists needed to paint themselves as champions of the equally great struggle for freedom of expression and as resistance fighters against religious obscurantism in the name of western values.

We are facing an incredible simplification, a gross polarisation: apparently a clash of civilisations, a confrontation between principles, with defenders, in one corner, of inalienable freedom of speech and, in the other, of the inviolable sacred sphere. Presented in such terms, the debate has unfortunately become a battle of wills, and the question becomes: who will win? Muslims, wanting apologies, threaten to attack European interests, even to attack people; western governments, intellectuals and journalists refuse to bend under threats, and certain media outlets have added to the controversy by republishing the cartoons. Most people around the world, observing these excesses, are perplexed: what sort of madness is this, they ask?

It is critical we find a way out of this infernal circle and demand from those stoking this fire that they stop their polemics at once and create a space for serious, open, in-depth debate and peaceful dialogue. This is not the predicted clash of civilisations. This affair does not symbolise the confrontation between the principles of Enlightenment and those of religion. Absolutely not. What is at stake at the heart of this sad story is whether or not the duelling sides have the capacity to be free, rational (whether believers or atheists) and, at the same time, reasonable.

The fracture is not between the west and Islam but between those who, in both worlds, are able to assert who they are and what they stand for with calm - in the name of faith or reason, or both - and those driven by exclusive certainties, blind passions, reductive perceptions of the other and a liking for hasty conclusions. The latter character traits are shared equally by some intellectuals, religious scholars, journalists and ordinary people on both sides. Facing the dangerous consequences these attitudes entail, it is urgent we launch a general call for wisdom.

In Islam, representations of all prophets are strictly forbidden. It is both a matter of the fundamental respect due to them and a principle of faith requiring that, in order to avoid any idolatrous temptations, God and the prophets never be represented. Hence, to represent a prophet is a grave transgression. If, moreover, one adds the clumsy confusions, insults and denigration that Muslims perceived in the Danish cartoons, one can understand the nature of the shock expressed by large segments of Muslim communities around the world (and not only by practising Muslims or the radicals). To these people, the cartoons were too much: it was good and important for them to express their indignation and to be heard.

At the same time, it was necessary for Muslims to bear in mind that, for the past three centuries, western societies - unlike Muslim-majority countries - have grown accustomed to critical, ironical - even derisive - treatment of religious symbols, among them the pope, Jesus Christ and even God. Even though Muslims do not share such an attitude, it is imperative they learn to keep an intellectual distance when faced with such provocations and not to let themselves be driven by zeal and fervour, which can only lead to undesirable ends.

In the case of these cartoons - as clumsy as they are idiotic and malicious - it would have been, and it would remain, preferable if Muslims expressed their values and grievances to the public at large without clamour, better if they paused until such a time as calm was possible. Instead, what is welling up today within some Muslim communities is as unproductive as it is insane: the obsessive demands for apologies, boycotting of European products and threats of violent reprisals are excesses that must be rejected and condemned.

However, it is just as excessive and irresponsible to invoke the "right to freedom of expression" - the right to say anything, in any way, against anybody. Freedom of expression is not absolute. Countries have laws that define the framework for exercising this right and which, for instance, condemn racist language. There are also specific rules pertaining to the cultures, traditions and collective psychologies in the respective societies that regulate the relationship between individuals and the diversity of cultures and religions.

Racial or religious insults are not addressed in the same way in the various western societies: within a generally similar legal framework, each nation has its own history and sensitivities; wisdom requires acknowledging and respecting this reality. The reality is also that the Muslim presence within western societies has changed their collective sensitivity. Instead of being obsessed with laws and rights - approaching a tyrannical right to say anything - would it not be more prudent to call upon citizens to exercise their right to freedom of expression responsibly and to take into account the diverse sensitivities that compose our pluralistic contemporary societies?

This is not a matter of additional laws restraining the scope of free speech; it is simply one of calling upon everybody's conscience to exercise that right with an eye on the rights of others. It is more about nurturing a sense of civic responsibility than about imposing legislation: Muslim citizens are not asking for more censorship but for more respect. One cannot impose mutual respect by means of legislation; rather one teaches it in the name of a free, responsible and reasonable common citizenship.

We are at a crossroads. The time has come for women and men who reject this dangerous division of people into two worlds to start building bridges based on common values. They must assert the inalienable right to freedom of expression and, at the same time, demand measured exercise of it. We need to promote an open, self-critical approach, to repudiate exclusive truths and narrow-minded, binary visions of the world.

We are in dire need of mutual trust. The crises provoked by these cartoons shows us how, out of "seemingly nothing", two universes of reference can become deaf to each other and be seduced by defining themselves against each other - with the worst possible consequences. Disasters threaten that extremists on both sides would not fail to use for their own agendas. If people who cherish freedom, who know the importance of mutual respect and are aware of the imperative necessity to establish a constructive and critical debate, if these people are not ready to speak out, to be more committed and visible, then we can expect sad, painful tomorrows. The choice is ours.

· Tariq Ramadan is visiting fellow at St Antony's College, Oxford University and senior research fellow at the Lokahi Foundation, in London
 
This is interesting:

Danish paper rejected Jesus cartoons

Gwladys Fouché and agencies
Monday February 6, 2006

Jyllands-Posten, the Danish newspaper that first published the cartoons of the prophet Muhammad that have caused a storm of protest throughout the Islamic world, refused to run drawings lampooning Jesus Christ, it has emerged today.
The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny.

In April 2003, Danish illustrator Christoffer Zieler submitted a series of unsolicited cartoons dealing with the resurrection of Christ to Jyllands-Posten.

Zieler received an email back from the paper's Sunday editor, Jens Kaiser, which said: "I don't think Jyllands-Posten's readers will enjoy the drawings. As a matter of fact, I think that they will provoke an outcry. Therefore, I will not use them."

The illustrator told the Norwegian daily Dagbladet, which saw the email: "I see the cartoons as an innocent joke, of the type that my Christian grandfather would enjoy."

"I showed them to a few pastors and they thought they were funny."

He said that he felt Jyllands-Posten rated the feelings of its Christian readers higher than that of its Muslim readers.

But the Jyllands-Posten editor in question, Mr Kaiser, told MediaGuardian.co.uk that the case was "ridiculous to bring forward now. It has nothing to do with the Muhammad cartoons.

"In the Muhammad drawings case, we asked the illustrators to do it. I did not ask for these cartoons. That's the difference," he said.

"The illustrator thought his cartoons were funny. I did not think so. It would offend some readers, not much but some."

The decision smacks of "double-standards", said Ahmed Akkari, spokesman for the Danish-based European Committee for Prophet Honouring, the umbrella group that represents 27 Muslim organisations that are campaigning for a full apology from Jyllands-Posten.

"How can Jyllands-Posten distinguish the two cases? Surely they must understand," Mr Akkari added.

"The Danish daily turned down the cartoons of Christ three years ago, on the grounds that they could be offensive to readers and were not funny."
Sounds like my description many posts ago of the Muhammad cartoons...
 
The cartoons have been a gift to not only fundamentalist, radical, and conservative Muslims, but also all of those who've been champing at a collective bit to vent their wrath about the civilian deaths in Iraq, the squabbling with Iran, the continuing military presence in Afghanistan, and the slooow processes with Israel.

Anyone who looks at Arab newspapers knows that Arabs can well take the mickey out of themselves and will be happy enough to lambast their Arab (and Muslim) opponents, critics, etc. There were some marvellously-satirical cartoons printed in the Arab News during the time of the Ayatollah Khomeini's rule in Iran, none at all complimentary towards him. However, there are still blasphemy laws in Islamic countries, and the Danes have got as close as it gets to it, so the joke has fallen very flat. They've probably irredeemably wrecked their own relationship with the Muslim world, which means in practical terms, a vast export business is now probably flushed down the toidy. In other terms, it remains to be seen whether someone will 'get at' the cartoonist or anyone on the offending paper, in the way that displeased Muslims murdered the Dutch film-maker for a considerably less 'insulting' offence.

Every religion has, or had, limits to its tolerance: we have to remember that the Christian belief was only too ready with sword and pyre to 'remedy' those who stepped out of line. That it's been rather better-behaved for the past 150 years (that's out of 2005) is hardly a long-term record of its tolerance and goodwill to ALL men!
 
However, there are still blasphemy laws in Islamic countries, and the Danes have got as close as it gets to it, so the joke has fallen very flat. They've probably irredeemably wrecked their own relationship with the Muslim world, which means in practical terms, a vast export business is now probably flushed down the toidy.
Click to expand...

It was a newspaper, not the Danes, that decided to publish these cartoons. If we want to attribute responsibility for this decision to the Danes, why stop there? Many of those taking offence would certainly like to spread the circle of blame as wide as possible and to include the West in general.
 
Join the club, although I'm sure you're already a member of some much more exclusive ones.
 
Grey - 'the Danes' as in a Danish cartoonist, a Danish editor, a Danish-owned newspaper, Danish newsagents, and Danish readers. It just saved a bit of time, in the context of the discussion, to shorthand it into 'the Danes' and save repetition.

I could say that 'it's Norway's' fault that the recent riots have occurred, since there wasn't a great uprising in September when the 12 cartoons were published in Denmark. It's the recent decision by the Norge magazine, Magazinet, to republish them that's sparked the attacks on both countries' embassies in some countries, the riots, the damage, the withdrawal of diplomatic relations, the ruin of many Danish and Norwegian businesses, and the statement by Denmark that Danes should avoid any 'unnecessary' travel to 13 Muslim countries. Meanwhile, after an initial boiling-up, the Danish Consulate in Bahrain has deemed itself very satisfied as to its, and its nationals', safety. The Foreign Ministry is keeping watch over the safety of nationals there, and it appears that this most liberal of Gulf states has managed to keep a lid on things after an initial outburst.

I'm slightly inclined to say that with a fortune in revenue from its F1 circuit about to pour in, it can ill afford to frighten off the foreigners!
 
as so many here, i am frightened by the islamic fanaticism too.
but in the end, what do we fear in the long term? that they invade europe, like Suny Bay seems to think? thats clearly nonsense.
its like the fear of communism after the world war. look at it now. although it certainly helped that there was no appeasement by Reagan & Co.
Salman Rushdie said that things like the islamic "revolution" are only episodes in history. With too many casualties, that is sure, but with no more lenght of time than two or three generations.
 
As the brilliant "The Power Of Nightmares" shows us, it's no coincidence that the "massive threat of Islam" appeared after the ending of the cold war and the fall of communism.
 
It comes down to two fairly simple economic factors:-

1) The need to have access to oilfields

2) The need to maintain a gawdamighty military budget

After the harum-scarum about Islam dies down (and it will) we'll all be invited to get worried shitless about the rise in practising kindness, goodwill, and civility to our human brethren, because it may lead to us all agreeing to live peacefully with each other, and then what the hell use would all those bombs, gases, missiles, and messengers of destruction be? Thousands of weapons craftsmen would be out of jobs, while designers of even more brutal aircraft might have to turn to re-designing ploughshares.
 
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