Champion Hurdle 2015

Frankel said:
The sectionals James has posted are very enlightening. Faugheen may well still have smashed them. Analysing the race, I think Arctic would have preferred faster earlier fractions. Faugheen may well have too. A poser though.
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Put the stop watch away and watch the race is my advice.

Arctic Fire looks perfectly relaxed and traveling well within his comfort zone.......What on earth makes you think he would want to be going any faster?

I repeat he's ran the best race of his life because everything went his way.........change the pace and he has to come out of his comfort zone and he expends energy.

Sectionals can be as misleading as helpful.

I've seen novices run faster than Champion Hurdle horses like Douvan did but how come no one runs that same novice against a Champion Hurdle horse and if they do they get stuffed?

If sectional are such a good thing and timing races is a good thing why is it the biggest majority of those who use them are running around with the ar$e falling out their trousers?
 
He has finished his races very well this season yet hasn't really shown a turn a foot. Quicker early fractions may have helped him later in the race when it took its toll.
Listen, I'm trying to find a positive for next year's race, otherwise it's looking like a one horse race. This flat talk by Willie isn't helping either.

Throw me a frickin bone here :D
 
Tanlic said:
Put the stop watch away and watch the race is my advice.

Arctic Fire looks perfectly relaxed and traveling well within his comfort zone.......What on earth makes you think he would want to be going any faster?

I repeat he's ran the best race of his life because everything went his way.........change the pace and he has to come out of his comfort zone and he expends energy.

Sectionals can be as misleading as helpful.

I've seen novices run faster than Champion Hurdle horses like Douvan did but how come no one runs that same novice against a Champion Hurdle horse and if they do they get stuffed?

If sectional are such a good thing and timing races is a good thing why is it the biggest majority of those who use them are running around with the ar$e falling out their trousers?
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Yes completely agree with you Tanlic..i've seen all sorts of times where selling platers run faster times than Derby winners ..how can you explain that eh?,,,its all bollox int it?..well its either that or i don't know wtf i'm on about

yes..i've got three sectionalers that live down the road from me..up all hours timing races.....never washing or shaving..don't feed themselves properly...dirty scruffy b@stards ..who lose every bet they place....absolute muppets imo.

i know where you are coming from Tanlic...tbh i tend to just watch races and back the favourite..works for me...sometimes i back the grey though..i must admit to that..oh and i also like horses with sheepskin nosebands..always get attracted to those.

If i'm in betting shop and back a winner..i always say to the chinese men that never seem to talk to anyone bar each other....."I see the class hoss won again lads"..they just nod and then laugh to each other..I don't know why really.

I've got this theory that those that smell who go in betting shops..are sectionalers..explains it dunt it?
 
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mullins had first three home in Champion Hurdle

first two home in Supreme

4 out of first 6 home in County Hurdle

there's a lot of pressure on Peace and Co for next year!
 
EC1 said:
Yes completely agree with you Tanlic..i've seen all sorts of times where selling platers run faster times than Derby winners ..how can you explain that eh?,,,its all bollox int it?..well its either that or i don't know wtf i'm on about

yes..i've got three sectionalers that live down the road from me..up all hours timing races.....never washing or shaving..don't feed themselves properly...dirty scruffy b@stards ..who lose every bet they place....absolute muppets imo.

i know where you are coming from Tanlic...tbh i tend to just watch races and back the favourite..works for me...sometimes i back the grey though..i must admit to that..oh and i also like horses with sheepskin nosebands..always get attracted to those.

If i'm in betting shop and back a winner..i always say to the chinese men that never seem to talk to anyone bar each other....."I see the class hoss won again lads"..they just nod and then laugh to each other..I don't know why really.

I've got this theory that those that smell who go in betting shops..are sectionalers..explains it dunt it?
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:lol:
Just seen this
 
Yeah real funny and mature.

He can put up all the sectional times he likes it does not help you find winners because there are variables that make cross referencing near impossible and render them useless .

Did any one person on here use them to find out that faugheen UDS or Vautour are good horses.......did the bookmakers? Did you as punters back the horses because you read their sectional times?

Ask yourselves this....how on earth did Douvan 11.7 manage to put up a faster time than then Faugheen 11.10?

So how do you use sectional times......do you just ignore facts that stare you right in the face? Can you take them and use them in another race and expect the near impossible to happen.

There's anything up to what? 2 furlongs between the 8 hurdles to really understand what happened in arce you need to break down that distance into about another 20 sections.

The reason most horse lose is not because they just did a fast 2 furlongs it's because during that distance the pace changed for perhaps only 10 strides a couple of times and it threw a horse either out of his comfort zone, caused him to get unbalanced, slowed for a few strides and upset his rhythm or whatever........you upset a horses momentum and he can go from travelling well to not travelling well in a flash and it's not all about speed.

The fastest time ever recorded at Sandown or Kempton I think it was.was by a horse who led all the way and had the entire race to himself.....in fact most track records are held by horses who won very little in the way of group or grade 1 races.

Why Faugheen is so good I think is...he can quicken in an instant, he can slow down the pace and quicken again with it being barely noticeable.he can do that 3 times over 2 furlongs between hurdles and it's his pace changes rather than overall speed between 2 hurdles that gets others in trouble. How can you detect these pace changes? sextion every dozen strides a horse takes?

Ruby Walsh does it better than most..he did the same thing on Vautour and UDS..the times weren't spectacular but the pace changes did the damage.

it's like making a snowman......get the ball of snow rolling and keep it going at the same speed your fine stop and start again and it takes all your strength to get the ball going again...the first way you are fine the 2nd way your a bit tired, knackered even if you like bg snowmen

The biggest problem with sectionals is without a doubt is they come after an event................you can't cross reference them with another race because you have no idea if that next race will be run in the same way......................you blatantly have to ignore the Shanehill V Hurricane Fly syndrome so you are in fact lying to yourself if you believe sectionals are the be all and end all or even helpful.

Of course in certain circumstances you can convince yourself they can be helpful...you might see a horse win a minute and think wow until you get the sectionals that tell you it was a slow time...........but you can do that by looking at the time and comparing it to other races on the same track on the same day.

So pray tell me what is so magical about knowing what time a horse did between 2 hurdles.......tells you he went faster at that point.yes....usually we can see that when others start pushing and kicking.

EC very kindly gave us the sectionals for the Gold Cup and told us what? He ran them into the ground...I already got that piece of info so his sectional times are about as much use as a sanitary dispenser in the gents toilet to me.

Hours and hours of time to do what? beats the **** out of me.

I respect timeform but they sell products and soon they'll sell you sectionals if you're daft enough to believe them and buy them.....good luck with them if you do


Finally.........Does the fact that Shanehill 11.7 4 1/2 lengths behind Douvan did a faster time than Hurricane Fly 6 1/2 lengths behind Faugheen mean he would beat Hurricane fLy if the 2 met with that 3lb difference?

I think the answer you would get if you asked Ruby that is probably ...are you fooking mad?
 
Tanlic said:
Yeah real funny and mature.

He can put up all the sectional times he likes it does not help you find winners because there are variables that make cross referencing near impossible and render them useless .

Did any one person on here use them to find out that faugheen UDS or Vautour are good horses.......did the bookmakers? Did you as punters back the horses because you read their sectional times?

Ask yourselves this....how on earth did Douvan 11.7 manage to put up a faster time than then Faugheen 11.10?

So how do you use sectional times......do you just ignore facts that stare you right in the face? Can you take them and use them in another race and expect the near impossible to happen.

There's anything up to what? 2 furlongs between the 8 hurdles to really understand what happened in arce you need to break down that distance into about another 20 sections.

The reason most horse lose is not because they just did a fast 2 furlongs it's because during that distance the pace changed for perhaps only 10 strides a couple of times and it threw a horse either out of his comfort zone, caused him to get unbalanced, slowed for a few strides and upset his rhythm or whatever........you upset a horses momentum and he can go from travelling well to not travelling well in a flash and it's not all about speed.

The fastest time ever recorded at Sandown or Kempton I think it was.was by a horse who led all the way and had the entire race to himself.....in fact most track records are held by horses who won very little in the way of group or grade 1 races.

Why Faugheen is so good I think is...he can quicken in an instant, he can slow down the pace and quicken again with it being barely noticeable.he can do that 3 times over 2 furlongs between hurdles and it's his pace changes rather than overall speed between 2 hurdles that gets others in trouble. How can you detect these pace changes? sextion every dozen strides a horse takes?

Ruby Walsh does it better than most..he did the same thing on Vautour and UDS..the times weren't spectacular but the pace changes did the damage.

it's like making a snowman......get the ball of snow rolling and keep it going at the same speed your fine stop and start again and it takes all your strength to get the ball going again...the first way you are fine the 2nd way your a bit tired, knackered even if you like bg snowmen

The biggest problem with sectionals is without a doubt is they come after an event................you can't cross reference them with another race because you have no idea if that next race will be run in the same way......................you blatantly have to ignore the Shanehill V Hurricane Fly syndrome so you are in fact lying to yourself if you believe sectionals are the be all and end all or even helpful.

Of course in certain circumstances you can convince yourself they can be helpful...you might see a horse win a minute and think wow until you get the sectionals that tell you it was a slow time...........but you can do that by looking at the time and comparing it to other races on the same track on the same day.

So pray tell me what is so magical about knowing what time a horse did between 2 hurdles.......tells you he went faster at that point.yes....usually we can see that when others start pushing and kicking.

EC very kindly gave us the sectionals for the Gold Cup and told us what? He ran them into the ground...I already got that piece of info so his sectional times are about as much use as a sanitary dispenser in the gents toilet to me.

Hours and hours of time to do what? beats the **** out of me.

I respect timeform but they sell products and soon they'll sell you sectionals if you're daft enough to believe them and buy them.....good luck with them if you do


Finally.........Does the fact that Shanehill 11.7 4 1/2 lengths behind Douvan did a faster time than Hurricane Fly 6 1/2 lengths behind Faugheen mean he would beat Hurricane fLy if the 2 met with that 3lb difference?

I think the answer you would get if you asked Ruby that is probably ...are you fooking mad?
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One thing in life i've learned is if you don't understand something, best not try and criticise it as you tend to make yourself look silly.

On a forum like this where i expect people to understand the game a bit more than betting shop Joe..i am staggered someone has made a post like Tanlic's and not one member here can see the flaws in it..and yet i can post a complete load of cobblers and i can guarantee at least 10 replies telling me what a load of sh1te i just posted

Maybe no one reads your posts Tanlic,,i don't know the answer.

Here is where i am...i have no interest in Ante post betting..but to all those who have..would you like me to come on that thread and tell you all what a load of plums you all are because i don't see the point in it?

I have no interest in competitions..would you like me to regularly post on those threads..oh what a load of sh1t this thread is

Its really simple to me..the only reason you would make such posts..is to try and belittle.

I'm very sorry Tanlic...but your above post..and the tone of it..is highly unlikely to aid this board is it?

What will happen is anyone who has any thoughts..bar..oy..this will win..look how good i am when it does.....won't post through fear of ridicule.

What exactly are trying to achieve with the post?

We know you don't understand how to use sectionals..you don't think they have any worth..well..thats true..re yourself..does that mean then that if you can't use them they are rubbish..just because of your own shortcomings..really?

Is everything in life you don't understand..useless..because you have no interest in it?
 
I certainly wouldn't endorse Digger's remark.

EC1's sectional analyses have been among the most informative and enlightening items on the forum and are to be encouraged rather than discouraged.

Keep 'em coming, EC1!
 
Digger said:
No one reads either of your posts.
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no..what you meant is ..you don't..and to be honest..i've never seen you give much useful input enough to attract me to read yours much either..no problem to me..you are just another one line artist that many boards have...the one liners usually don't amount to much and are generally rude..don't know why you bother tbh..you aren't a funny person and your useful input to the board as whole is probably just above nil.
 
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The reason most horse lose is not because they just did a fast 2 furlongs it's because during that distance the pace changed for perhaps only 10 strides a couple of times and it threw a horse either out of his comfort zone, caused him to get unbalanced, slowed for a few strides and upset his rhythm or whatever........you upset a horses momentum and he can go from travelling well to not travelling well in a flash and it's not all about speed.

I think this is a really excellent point.
 
reet hard said:
The very fact that you need to support him is also a recognition the guy has a problem.
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like i said..each time you post against me without any cause..i'll highlight it.

thats twice now in 24 hours

and yet i have a problem..lmao...you couldn't actually make it up could you?

keep posting in a similar manner..i'll keep highlighting it
 
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Desperate Dan said:
:confused:
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you couldn't make it up Dan could you?

this guy has been purposely naysaying 80% of my posts to score points for as long as he has been on this forum..years...before that he did it to Stav and me on TRF..so its not a new illness he has got

but i have a problem..well yes i do..its weird sad sods with username obsessions

i've actually got to keep score now of his negative jibes just to make sure i'm not imagining it..you know ..with me needing my head read or whatever it was the "experts" on here say i needed a while back when they didn't like how i was posting..or should i say clique merchants

strangely enough..another ex TRFer..Tanlic..has caught same disease..must be something in the water over there

so..i am expected to just put up with it..whereas i've noticed when the worthies on here get any sort of post they don't like..they are calling the people making them..cnuts..twats etc with no objection from their off the board friends whatsover..they don't need their heads read for replying in that way..its quite acceptable to reply in that way..for some on here
 
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To put a bit of perspective on things, you may have one or two, err, critics on here, shall we say, but I see you`ve been "thanked" 124 times by members. I`d say the "thankers" have it!!
 
anyone who has constructive criticism of anything i post gets proper replies from me Dan..people who don't use constructive criticism will in future get the replies they deserve off me..i'm tired of the double standards and those who snidely dig every time they post..without anyone mentioning it...there are others who are allowed to reply using cnut and tw@t ...with nothing said from their "mates" etc

your point is noted though:)..although those with an agenda do not understand the word..thanks..its all about points scored.
 
What a bunch of coksuckers..............sook sook sook.............why don't you reply to posts other than say EC is the greatest......don't you have a fookin brain to think for yourselves?

I am sick to the teeth of youtoss pts who have nothing to say or debate........all you do is sook up EC's ass like he's a god.

I don't mind anyone disagreeing with my posts but ffs grow up and stand on your own 2 feet.
 
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Desert Orchid said:
I certainly wouldn't endorse Digger's remark.

EC1's sectional analyses have been among the most informative and enlightening items on the forum and are to be encouraged rather than discouraged.

Keep 'em coming, EC1!
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Why can't you respond to posts on your own? are you brain dead..........no one wants to hear you sooking up EC's ass you're so obvious it turns my stomache.........tell us what you think about a post and stop being a wimp......if all you wanna do is lick ass fook off and go join a gay club
 
EC1 said:
anyone who has constructive criticism of anything i post gets proper replies from me Dan..people who don't use constructive criticism will in future get the replies they deserve off me..i'm tired of the double standards and those who snidely dig every time they post..without anyone mentioning it...there are others who are allowed to reply using cnut and tw@t ...with nothing said from their "mates" etc

your point is noted though:)..although those with an agenda do not understand the word..thanks..its all about points scored.
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I don't have a problem with you but I am damn sure you are not going to think my thoughts for me..If I disagree with you I will tell straight idf I agree with you I will tell you straight

You dissing posts you can't answer makes you look like a big headed moron.......If u disagree then let us know why......Gawd knows you wrote enough to jam your ideas down peoples throats like their straight off golden plates from the Angel Moroni


This is not a Kiora advert and unlike some I don't waana be your dog
 
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