Champion Hurdle 2015

I very much doubt Faugheen has the speed to win a xmas hurdle..any horse that wins in that sort of test isn't a CH winner imo..so best he loses that .if he runs in it will get beat for speed..but thats a really good sign for Cheltenham..but most punters will take a defeat at Kempton as a negative..when it will be the opposite..thats the time to bet him for the CH...will drift nicely

its a no lose if you fancy him for the CH..you want to hope he gets beat at kempton
 
will be great to see him live again but its going to interesting to see if he really will cope again with 2m. I didnt think TNO was a cert for the race ?
 
He could beat TNO and Irving at Kempton, and still not have the speed to win a CH.
Clearly, he's a very good horse, but it takes a truly exceptional specimen to win over 3m, and then have the speed to win the big one over 2.
 
EC1 said:
I very much doubt Faugheen has the speed to win a xmas hurdle..any horse that wins in that sort of test isn't a CH winner imo..so best he loses that .if he runs in it will get beat for speed..but thats a really good sign for Cheltenham..but most punters will take a defeat at Kempton as a negative..when it will be the opposite..thats the time to bet him for the CH...will drift nicely

its a no lose if you fancy him for the CH..you want to hope he gets beat at kempton
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I agree with you EC regarding Faugheen round Kempton but surely he should still be winning the race round there against what will probabley be a match with The New One.
My Tent Or Yours though would be a different kettle of fish( Who you rightly napped last boxing day if I remember right).
 
EC1 said:
i could easily see Irving winning at Kempton tbh..we know TNO gets best for toe there..Irving could be the one

watch none of the three even run:)
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jesus it was hardly 5 lengths. and he did hit last. :blink:
 
still didn't win Clive:)

if you want to back a miler over 5f..then fair play..yes he can win ..only if nothing half decent turns up...but if just one decent speedy 2 miler does turn up..that will turn TNO over imo
 
is TNO defo going for the xmas hurdle? i know they did it last year but its quite soon after the bula.
 
I hope whatever wins the Xmas hurdle wins the champion, just so EC doesn't get to trot out the poor record of Xmas hurdle winners in the champion every year!! :D
 
As we all know EC and Fonz are stone mad lol...seriously Faugheen not enough speed for the Xmas hurdle...The New One imo wouldnt see the way Faugheen went round Kempton and I will be amazed if he even turns up....if TNO has the speed to get anywhere near him after 2 out i would be amazed
 
granger said:
Yes but can see people having concerns given that he won a point and over 3m at Limerick

Still has routed a G1 field on good ground over 2miles

Smitten with him
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Aye, but doing it to other novices doesn't equate to CH winning form - has another 10-14lb to find on 2m form imo, even allowing for ease of victory.
Just my view, but they're probably running at Kempton to establish if he's the speed for a CH, but NTD came away from the race last year convinced his horse had, but time still proved he hadn't.
 
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EC1 said:
still didn't win Clive:)

if you want to back a miler over 5f..then fair play..yes he can win ..only if nothing half decent turns up...but if just one decent speedy 2 miler does turn up..that will turn TNO over imo
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One very decent one did turn up and only beat him by the smallest of margins ec. Possibly the speediest of all them last season. Probably wouldnt have if no last hurdle mistake.


Is the 3miler faugheen "speedier" than mtoy?


Still doesnt ring true to me
 
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reet hard said:
Just my view, but they're probably running at Kempton to establish if he's the speed for a CH, but NTD came away from the race last year convinced his horse had, but time still proved he hadn't.
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Avoid Hurricane and the champ Jezki at Leopardstown

It will take a good horse to gallop past him
 
clivex said:
One very decent one did turn up and only beat him by the smallest of margins ec. Possibly the speediest of all them last season. Probably wouldnt have if no last hurdle mistake.


Is the 3miler faugheen "speedier" than mtoy?


Still doesnt ring true to me
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Whilst I still think Faugheen remains a touch unproven as a top-class 2-miler, I think it's unwise to write him off as a "3-miler". Not that I subscribe to it myself, but his Punchestown form can be viewed in an extremely positive-light (if you choose to place a particular gloss on it, as Timeform did in C&H), and at the very-least, he appears to be extremely versatile in terms of trip.....at this stage in his career, at any rate.

The Champion Hurdle is a proper test, and you want a horse that is going to get up the hill - in that regard, Faugheen seems an ideal type to me. Given he's also proven on the track, he will - assuming all goes to plan - contest the next Champion Hurdle with fewer questions marks against him than Hurricane Fly did in 2011. The challenge from the UK looks somewhat anaemic, with The New One about the only horse with genuine pretensions to getting involved in the finish - and even then, you need to ignore practically all of the stats, concerns about his jumping, and also his ability to quicken off a strong-pace.

The latter two aspects are essentially the main worries about Faugheen too. I think there is a danger that - a little like his stable-companion Un De Sceaux - he might be a bit one-dimensional, in terms of 2m hurdles. I think he probably only has one way of running at there trip i.e. gallop them into the ground, and whilst that can work well against inferior opposition, he'll face a much sterner examination against Jezki and to a lesser extent Hurricane Fly (who may no longer cart as much speed as he once did). I think Kempton is a fishing-trip, to see where they are with Faugheen, relative to TNO......and whether they need to think about a change of tactics in the main event.
 
Aragorn said:
I hope whatever wins the Xmas hurdle wins the champion, just so EC doesn't get to trot out the poor record of Xmas hurdle winners in the champion every year!! :D
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:)

that race and fighting 5th..i don't rub it in after though do i?..or do i?..i mention it every year..get ridiculed..then those ridiculing never mention it again when neither wins CH...they waiting for the year for one to win to mention it;)
 
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clivex said:
One very decent one did turn up and only beat him by the smallest of margins ec. Possibly the speediest of all them last season. Probably wouldnt have if no last hurdle mistake.


Is the 3miler faugheen "speedier" than mtoy?


Still doesnt ring true to me
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oh no..i'm saying Faugheen won't win it..a speedy 2 miler will win it..if one turns up..if not and its just TNO & Faugheen..then by default Faugheen will win it

if people think the Xmas hurdle is a real good trial for Cheltenham then that's their choice..its exactly opposite of whats required imo..and the record of Xmas winners to CH winners backs that up..how much evidence do people want? 50years..100?

Its like saying 12f at Newmarket is a good prep for a shot at the Derby..it just isn't.

i used that comparison just to irk Grassy:)
 
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NTD has said TNO will take similar path. After his Kempton run in October, he said hopefully he'll be back here at Xmas.

If they all stood there ground, it would be an interesting race. I think Irving probably has more pace than either Faugheen or TNO, and if TNO and Faugheen were messing about watching the other then Irving may just well out sprint them. However if they start racing a way out then I would expect Irving to maybe duck the issue.

I thought Tent would win this a bit more comfy last year than he did. Barring the mistake from TNO he may well not have. Clearly the ground had a big part to play. At Cheltenham on better ground TNO didn't have the boot. Granted a genuine soft ground Champion then I can see TNO and Faugheen being big players. If not then they are mopping up Jezki's drips imo. Of course that could all change if Faugheen spits them out.
 
EC1 said:
:)

that race and fighting 5th..i don't rub it in after though do i?..or do i?..i mention it every year..get ridiculed..then those ridiculing never mention it again when neither wins CH...they waiting for the year for one to win to mention it;)
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I don't think anyone has ever "ridiculed" you, EC1, have they?

BTW, I've backed Hurricane Fly every year since you mentioned this stat, so I'm not culpable! :D
 
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