CHampions Day - Ascot

I'm glad you enjoyed it, last year was very good too. I suppose next year, without Frankel's presence, will be a bigger test of the project
 
I also greatly enjoyed it yesterday (despite the nightmare traffic) and pleased to see some old faces (albeit briefly with some).

The going clearly brought them together more and Frankel had to be ridden, but he was good enough. A splendid individual and right up there with the best of them. At 8 furlongs and 10 furlongs he has been truly impressive. Best of all time? Let's not get too obsessed with that. It does Frankel a disservice to portray him this way and either shows ignorance or ill-judgement of other great performances. Let's just agree that he was up there with any of them at what he did... I would have loved to have seen him at a mile and a half, but we should be satisfied with what he's achieved also.
 
if you judge horses by comparing bare times..then yes i would say it shows ill judgement;)

but the main part about racing IS comparing the difference between horses..so comparing current with past is also part of the game..can't see why its frowned upon.

I actually think Excelebration's win yesterday tells you a lot.

Imagine that Frankel hadn't existed...then imagine what we would all think of Excelebration..he would have a few more wins that looked as good as he did yesterday...a solid 130+ horse....then someone says..there is a horse that could hammer him on average 6 lengths each time they meet..no one would believe it
 
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Exactly. I think the argument has to be the other way round now. Ok "all time" is a bit hopeless but living memory is fair enough. I would need to be convinced that there has been a better racehorse on the turf. Not easy is it

Would also need to be convinced that the champions day should go back to newmarket too. Even harder
 
SteveM said:
The going clearly brought them together more and Frankel had to be ridden, but he was good enough. A splendid individual and right up there with the best of them. At 8 furlongs and 10 furlongs he has been truly impressive. Best of all time? Let's not get too obsessed with that. It does Frankel a disservice to portray him this way and either shows ignorance or ill-judgement of other great performances. Let's just agree that he was up there with any of them at what he did... I would have loved to have seen him at a mile and a half, but we should be satisfied with what he's achieved also*.
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*For National Hunt topics, please replace the word 'Frankel' with the word 'Denman, and re-post

:ninja:
 
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I think it has been slightly dissapointing

last year it was good with the queii and champion st to class race and Deacon blues in the sprint


but this years card
only the champion stakes saved the party, although a small field
the queii produced a good nce by the winner but the field was much worse than was a race like the Jacques Le Marois
the rest of the card was dissapointing

next season without Frankel we will see the things with more perspective
 
I would hope without Frankel scaring them off we'll get a similar quality field than what we had for the first Champion Stakes at Ascot.
 
agree the first two years of the card have been blessed with frankel its merits will have a proper test next year

I think the stayers race wasnt bad but the card does need at least two more group 1 on the card either the stayers or mares should be upgraded

and perhaps the dewhurst should be transfered from newmarket they can have the apprentice race

its , and whilst i can understand why they have done it, unusual to have such a race on a so called champions day
 
I think the mares' race and the stayers' race were good this year. They had very deep fields, and great winners (for different reasons).

The sprint was pretty bad, but sprints are pretty bad. The QE2 had a decent enough field, and a good winner. It was better than the Moulin and the Sussex, and more or less a replica of the Jacques le Marois. The Champion Stakes had three champions, which is good in anyone's book.

I agree with the Dewhurst comment. I know the 5 races are the culmination of the Champions Series in each category....but the Dewhurst has more business as part of the card than the apprentice race.
 
Bar the Bull said:
I think the mares' race and the stayers' race were good this year. They had very deep fields, and great winners (for different reasons).

The sprint was pretty bad, but sprints are pretty bad. The QE2 had a decent enough field, and a good winner. It was better than the Moulin and the Sussex, and more or less a replica of the Jacques le Marois. The Champion Stakes had three champions, which is good in anyone's book.

I agree with the Dewhurst comment. I know the 5 races are the culmination of the Champions Series in each category....but the Dewhurst has more business as part of the card than the apprentice race.
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Agree with all of this.
 
Just read an article about Dunguib. Given the way he smashed up Rite of Passage in the champion bumper do you think Fenton missed a trick not trying him on the flat?
 
Aragorn said:
Just read an article about Dunguib. Given the way he smashed up Rite of Passage in the champion bumper do you think Fenton missed a trick not trying him on the flat?
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Fenton has missed plenty of tricks in his time.
 
SlimChance said:
Fenton has missed plenty of tricks in his time.
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I'm not sure he deserves all the blame but it is an if only.

I seem to remember people saying he should go that route at the time but it was dismissed as a flight of fancy..... More of a rite of passage!
 
I dont blame Fenon for the injury of the horse
but what a pity such a talented horse fell in the hands of such a trainer
 
A Sunday Independant article 07/02/10 "Box Walker To Box Office" by John O Brien tells of the horse being light of bone, light framed, upright on his front legs and a box walker.
Lily Lawlor, the owner also had the odd horse with Tony Martin.
That may have been fun!
Owner and trainer are all NH so there was little chance of the horse emulating say Farney Fox trained by DKWs father who won 2 bumpers, an Irish Lincoln, 2nd Champion Hurdle and 4th Washington DC International or even Rite Of Passage.
In the 1950s the Irish flat handicapper rated bumper winners.
P.Sleator mopped up long distance flat handicaps with well handicapped bumper winners and threatened to leave Ireland when the rules changed .
I often wondered how Timeform, Nick Mordin or Beyer rated Dunguib's Cheltenham win.
Visually he had enough pace to frighten most Gp1 flat horses. Pity the chassis is too fragile for the engine.
 
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