CHampions Day - Ascot

davidjohnson said:
Do you recall how pleased Smith was that all of his colleagues universally agreed that 140 was the figure for York. Will they all want to go back on that? Reassessing the Lockinge at least allows them to save face.
Click to expand...

They'd have to raise the not-seen-since Dubawi Gold around 5lbs if they went with the Lockinge. I think they'll fudge it and add another extra pound or two on arbitrarily*. Similar in a way to when they couldn't get Rock of Gibraltar above 124/125 but added on whatever they needed to make him top-rated that year.

*bearing in mind that around 4lb of Frankel's 140 is already added on for style of victory.
 
SlimChance said:
What did Excelecbration run to today on your figures abd was it a PB?
Click to expand...

Excelebration 132+today
back to his best


he had posted 127+ in the deauville race
128+ in the Lockinge


and last year


QEII 132
Moulin 125+
Hungerford 132+



he is a top class horse
 
Bar the Bull said:
A good day's racing. Like Euro, I taped it. Cecil is in a bad way.
Click to expand...

Yes. Shame to see him like that.

Excelebration was very impressive. Won with any amount in hand and certainly as good as a George Washington. I don't feel sorry for him as his association with Frankel means his name will live on in the same way My Swallow did.
 
sunybay said:
Cirrus for me is
130 on good
134 on soft
140 on heavy
Click to expand...

The 140 is from the Ganay..beating Giofra 8 lengths..Timeform rate Gofra 118 for that run

at probably just under 2lbs per length that makes CDA a 133 on their ratings

you must have Giofra on 125 for CDA to be 140

I can't see Giofra being rated that highly imo.
 
EC1 said:
The 140 is from the Ganay..beating Giofra 8 lengths..Timeform rate Gofra 118 for that run

at probably just under 2lbs per length that makes CDA a 133 on their ratings

you must have Giofra on 125 for CDA to be 140

I can't see Giofra being rated that highly imo.
Click to expand...

Strictly on the formbook what is the highest OR you could give Frankel?
 
EC1 said:
The 140 is from the Ganay..beating Giofra 8 lengths..Timeform rate Gofra 118 for that run

at probably just under 2lbs per length that makes CDA a 133 on their ratings
Click to expand...

You forgot to add on Giofra's 3lb allowance. That would take CDA up to 136/137 but Timeform actually used a much lower poundage (somewhere around 1.5/1.6 lbs/length) and CDA was given 133+ anyway.
 
I think Frankel 's best chance to get the highest OR ever will be after the BC. Moonlight Cloud (in relation with Farhh) and St Nicholas Abbey putting good performances could force to re consider the Juddmonte. He only needs a pound raise and its hard to see him getting any more extra from the QAnne.
 
Could be, although SNA is so exposed now it might be hard to justify any retrospective rise. Is Farhh done for the season? No chance he'll go to Hong Kong?
 
I am really glad I went . The ground was soft , heavy in places remember and at its worst apparently between the 10f and 8f when Frankel had to make up that ground .

He still hit the front on the bridle and I am with HRAC who is quoted on the SL site I think as saying I have got him too relaxed and he had loads left .

Cirrus is no better a horse in heavy than very soft IMO - it is just that the opposition runs below form . The fact is that Frankel has comfortably beaten the second and joint third highest rated horses in the world on their favoured surface after a bad trip .

He is the best I have ever seen - unarguably so ! The idea that Dancing Brave was a better horse than him is laughable .

Joint second best things of the day - Excelebration's brilliant performance and the marvellous comeback of Rite of Passage

Downers : The ground ( a problem for Champions Day if this becomes the norm as is all too likely)
The dreadful grandstand the lack of good viewing in the grandstand enclosure is still a disgrace ,
Trying to get out of the course as a vast part of the concourse had been cordoned off and the gates shut as the Queen evidently wanted to do a runner before the apprentice handicap - It was a bit scary at times the crowd pressure was quite bad . The Queen should have waited especially as she was late and missed the first two races !
The apprentice handicap - what an anticlimax that race is . I would shorten the sprint to 5f and add the Challenge to the card - Newmarket can have the Bengough in return from the previous meeting
 
Last edited:
I made the two and a half hour drive down there in the morning, arriving just after the gates opened. I bought my race cards and a quick cuppa and then bolted straight to the rails at the winning post. I made the mistake at York of nipping off for some lunch. When I got back they were ten deep on the rails and I had to watch from the stands. I wasn't going to let it happen a second time, so I stayed standing in the same spot for five solid hours not even moving for a toilet break. It was worth every last second! The light was too dull for really good pictures, but I saw the climax of every race (Bar the last.) from the very best vantage point on the course, including of course Frankel's sublime beating of the much touted French horse. The short straight flattered Cirrus IMO Tom obviously wasn't going to risk a repeat of the St James, especially on that testing ground, and he played his hand perfectly. Frankel won with plenty in hand and took an age to pull up. Without the loss of racing lengths at the stalls and with an earlier move to take up the running the winning distance would have been much greater. There was never a moments doubt about the outcome and the tactics on the day did a little to save the faces of those daft enough to put the French horse up as a likely threat. ;)

champion3c.jpg
 
yesterdays ground was not heavy
it was just soft, nothing impossible, just check the time of the race


about Cirrus
I think he is better than yesterday


Frankel
The only question would be the 12f, I think he would have stayed it on good ground.
I find it funny how people talk about the versatility of Sea The Stars because he won the Guineas beating Delegator by a length with Gam Amhras in 3rd.

It is very unlikely I will see a better horse than him. It has been 3 years to remember for ever
 
sunybay said:
yesterdays ground was not heavy
it was just soft, nothing impossible, just check the time of the race


about Cirrus
I think he is better than yesterday
Click to expand...

Suny, normally you speak a lot of sense but I think you are off the mark here. Cirrus had the Perfect trip and I see absolutely no reason to suggest he didn't run right up to his best. He was fresh, good prep race, perfect ground, run of the race, the butterfly on board....everything was ideal and he was stil beaten comfortably....
 
Well, I so nearly didn't go - we've been on calving past week, I was shattered, had to leave even as another heifer was calving but partner dealt with that Jinnyj and I got there with twenty minutes to spare before the first race, in spite of the ridiculous traffic from M3 to course (roadworks when they knew it would be heaviest traffic day for months - really ?). First visit since they remodelled the course for me - very impressive but miss the wonderful details of the old course/stands.

But boy, was it worth the effort. The horse is indeed better than anything I've ever seen, the crowd's appreciation of him and Henry Cecil was heartwarming and good to see so many people there just to appreciate a superstar. You can crab the horse all you want, compare him to past greats all you want, criticise his racing programme all you want but if you can't see what a fabulous racehorse FRANKEL is, then I feel a bit sorry for you.
 
Songsheet

I appreciate him for what he is..but personally i have to do the comparing and rating stuff as well..its how i look at things

I've never seen anything like him and have no doubt i never will again.

I think he and Secretariat stand above all horses i've seen visually..the way they destroy fields is similar.

there is also one measure that he beats all other horses on I believe..he is unbeaten
 
I've only seen the replay of the start and the run from the turn into the straight on the news.

I thought Frankel looked as good as anyone could have wanted. None of the greats ever put massive amounts of daylight between themselves and the others in genuinely soft ground and Queally seemed to look after him well as he made his move effortlessly.

CDA is a top horse (but I would probably struggle to get him within 7lbs of suny's rating) and Frankel basically laughed at him. The pair also drew impressively clear of Nathaniel in a short space of time, and Nathaniel himself was clear.

I'd say Frankel was arguably more impressive than the Brigadier ever was in soft, although there have been plenty of arguments in this thread that he wouldn't be inconvenienced by it whereas the Brigadier obviously was.

I wouldn't want this race taken at face value to belittle anything Frankel has already done. He did lose a bit of ground at the start but still cruised into the lead without being asked for maximum effort, only being kept up to his work late on to keep him focused.

It was a proper G1 performance and executed with the minimum of fuss.

I'd love to see him stay in training and nail at least one more 145+ run. I want to be able to look back on him as the best ever.
 
sunybay said:
yesterdays ground was not heavy
it was just soft, nothing impossible, just check the time of the race
Click to expand...

Ascot (as usual) called it perfectly, imo.
Sectionals show the heavy ground was exactly as the TurfTrax map, the straight course was faster than the round, and the 7f apprentice race was (relatively) the fastest of the day, with the winner coming from the far side against a clear pace bias.
Not every CoC is a Kirkland Tellwright.
 
My first time at Ascot yesterday and I loved it. So glad we went and got to see Frankel! Other highlights were Hawkeyethenoo and Jack Dexter for me since Jim Goldie is one of my favourites. Though to be fair all the races for me were fab
 
Back
Top