Cheltenham Race Reviews

Grasshopper said:
Without getting dragged into an argument that has been done to death a thousand times:

re Sectionals - and time more generally - whilst the numbers on the clock are measurable, the ground is always, always a subjective measure, and given the co-dependent relationship between the pair, times can only ever be considered a implicity-accurate measure of performance, rather than an explicitly accurate measure.

Additionally, given the pace can only be subjectively-measured/ guessed-at beforehand, application of Sectionals/Times alone to determine an outcome, is compromised.

To me, it’s just one more factor that you can weight into your calculations or not - depending on taste. The suggestion that it somehow holds the key, or is otherwise a stronger indicator to an outcome, is piffle - for the reasons given above.
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Fair post and this thread should move on as it's good should outweigh any differences of opinion
 
Fair point.

I'm always wary of taking his pronouncements at face value but every now and gain I find myself thinking he's being honest.

Four years on from Altior's Supreme he's now saying he thought the horse was unbeatable regardless of the rumours coming over from Ireland [about Min]. He was playing his cards much closer to his chest at the time.

As I said earlier, I'm interested in his idea that Allart has "unfinished business" over hurdles. I reckon that's immediate grounds for tracking the horse (which I did the first day I saw the interview. I imagine maybe the Betfair Hurdle, Coral Cup or County Hurdle - maybe even the Champion Hurdle - is on the agenda for next season.
 
Grasshopper said:
Without getting dragged into an argument that has been done to death a thousand times:

re Sectionals - and time more generally - whilst the numbers on the clock are measurable, the ground is always, always a subjective measure, and given the co-dependent relationship between the pair, times can only ever be considered a implicity-accurate measure of performance, rather than an explicitly accurate measure.

Additionally, given the pace can only be subjectively-measured/ guessed-at beforehand, application of Sectionals/Times alone to determine an outcome, is compromised.

To me, it’s just one more factor that you can weight into your calculations or not - depending on taste. The suggestion that it somehow holds the key, or is otherwise a stronger indicator to an outcome, is piffle - for the reasons given above.
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Nicely put Nick.
 
Grasshopper said:
Without getting dragged into an argument that has been done to death a thousand times:

re Sectionals - and time more generally - whilst the numbers on the clock are measurable, the ground is always, always a subjective measure, and given the co-dependent relationship between the pair, times can only ever be considered a implicity-accurate measure of performance, rather than an explicitly accurate measure.

Additionally, given the pace can only be subjectively-measured/ guessed-at beforehand, application of Sectionals/Times alone to determine an outcome, is compromised.

To me, it’s just one more factor that you can weight into your calculations or not - depending on taste. The suggestion that it somehow holds the key, or is otherwise a stronger indicator to an outcome, is piffle - for the reasons given above.
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Nay Grass, there will always be conjecture on the exact state of the ground, and it's an arbitrary choice what to call it, (though it's partly addressed by the going stick in other spheres).
Time and pace are both electroncally quantifiable for short and equal sections in flat racing, that is clearly not the case for NH races and sticking one's finger in the air to decide pace changes just doesn't cut it (imo, obviously).
 
Reet, you will not be at all surprised to hear that my post - as they all do - referred only to the Jumps game. :thumbsup:
 
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granger said:
If the guineas or Derby go ahead Nick, you may have to try a new tipple
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Summer abstinence is something I have practised rigorously for about a quarter of a century now, PJ. This year no different from any other - despite the rather unique circumstances.
 
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A soundbyte but the answer surprised me - Gordon Elliott Q&A

If you could ride/train one horse, what would it be?
I’d like to train Honeysuckle – she’s a great mare.

Also some sage advice from the great man

 If you were to go back to when you were 20 years old and give yourself one
piece of advice, what would it be?
Don’t have a girlfriend whilst you’re so young.
 
Desert Orchid said:
I've done a fairly rudimentary comparison between the Triumph and the County. I don't think Simon Rowlands published a furlong-by-furlong comparison, focusing instead on the finishing % relative to the whole race.

I have SR running the C&D 26lbs faster than BV.

Assuming Goshen would have won by 10L, SR would have been 9lbs or so faster.

They got to the first hurdle sooner in the County although that's based on the TV clock which might not have started at exactly the same time. Thereafter, I paused the recording as the lead horse was in flight, its withers directly above the hurdle. From there on, the Triumph was very fast-run and at the second-last was 8L in front (ie Goshen was). While Goshen was taking nearly ten lengths off his field from there to the last, the County field were going at pretty much the same speed and Saint Roi sped clear on the run-in.

I think Goshen would have been a very impressive winner but over a modest field while I think the County was a ridiculously hot race, some way better than even a normally hot remewal.

Time will tell, I suppose.

These are my sectional timings taken from the TV recording. Unfortunately, whichever dick in the production team was responsible for the pictures, he needs a toe up the arse because his fancy-dan idea of showing the jockey-cam image in the top left corner of the main screen meant the much-hyped on-screen clock was fuckin hidden!


<tbody>
[TD="align: center"]Sect[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Juv (s)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]County (s)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Diff (s)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Dist (L)[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]Cum[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H1-H2[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45.17[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]43.56[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-1.81[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-9[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H2-H3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H3-H4[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H4-H5[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]64.14[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]64.73[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.59[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]3[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-6[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H5-H6[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27.09[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]27.53[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.44[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]4-[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H6-H7[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]45.57[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]47.96[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]2.39[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]12[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H7-H8[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]39.49[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]39.53[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0.04[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]0+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]8[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]H8-WP[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]19.16[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]13.95[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-5.21[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]26[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-18[/TD]

[TD="align: center"]BV[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]16.80[/TD]
[TD="align: center"][/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-2.85[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]14+[/TD]
[TD="align: center"]-6+[/TD]

</tbody>
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Bumping this to complement Maxbet's sectional take on the race while the other thread is being fixed.
 
It’s official.

Saint Roi is the banker. Interesting though DO. Cheers. I’m quite intrigued by stuff like that.
 
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