Christmas Hurdle Kempton Dec 26th

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EC1 said:
a touch harsh Grass...calm yersen down or i'll send you some AW dvds;)
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Of course, you're right, EC1.......and I of course offer a full retraction and apology to Hamm. However, being told to "give it up" because our opinions clash, doesn't sit well with me.

Hamm, the apology is sincere, and the malice wasn't really there in the first place. Good luck if you have LR bets running for you in the next. :cool:
 
Grasshopper said:
Of course, you're right, EC1.......and I of course offer a full retraction and apology to Hamm. However, being told to "give it up" because our opinions clash, doesn't sit well with me.

Hamm, the apology is sincere, and the malice wasn't really there in the first place. Good luck if you have LR bets running for you in the next. :cool:
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i'll shove those DVD's away for the time being;)
 
Who said 'he can't battle'? There was enough doubt in enough peoples minds to either back against him or avoid the event entirely from a betting perspective.

Yes, it was a nice race to watch near the end, but to my eye this race over the years is sadly becoming a bit of a non event, with two short priced ones to play Russian Roulette with for punters.
Seems like the only Grade 1 Hurdle with more than two top-notch hurdlers nowadays can be seen once year near in a hill in March.:)
 
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I backed MTOY but if he'd jumped the last I think the new one would have won. I'd rather be on him for the champion at this stage but I haven't had a bet.

Had CUe Card in the Christmas double....was hard to watch!
 
Aragorn said:
I backed MTOY but if he'd jumped the last I think the new one would have won. I'd rather be on him for the champion at this stage but I haven't had a bet.

Had CUe Card in the Christmas double....was hard to watch!
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But that mistake from TNO is not an isolated one at this stage, he got away with it the last day, he will not win a Champion Hurdle jumping like that.
 
Not saying he would. Just saying he'll beat MTOY at Cheltenham and I'd stand by that.

Whether he can beat Our Conor, Jezki or the champ is a different matter.

Whatever happens this looks a vintage year if they all turn up.
 
Wonderful to be there today but could only concur that tno would have won with a better jump at the last. That can improve. Mtoy battled really well dispelling those slight doubts

Just a great race and fail to see why it diminshes eithers chance in big day as suggested
 
Today only serves to increase my confidence about Our Conor in the CH. I'd be surprised if the first two today are good enough and as such the market has a nice shape. Tempted to cover on HF and maybe Jezki for Cheltenham.


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What did either of these horses do wrong today (aside from bad jump at last by tno)?

I just don't get this. Our Connor has been missing and the seasonal bows by HF and especially jezki were unwhelming. They are the horses with a little to prove At this stage. Maybe we will see it tomorrow but maybe not
 
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Even though I was wrong with my opinion I thought it was a great race - had me screaming at the telly - adrenalin pumping - two very good horses and McCoy just too good - love the way MTOY travelled, does look the horse to improve more of the two.
 
The New One surely better when held up for longer.
A good pace at Cheltenham will suit him better.
Fantastic race with very very little between the top players until Sunday at least.
Hurricane Fly at 6/1 for Champion has to be the value now. ( until Sunday at least!)
 
BennyB said:
Today only serves to increase my confidence about Our Conor in the CH. I'd be surprised if the first two today are good enough and as such the market has a nice shape. Tempted to cover on HF and maybe Jezki for Cheltenham.


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Both horses have proven they are top class over the past 12 months and have come back as 2nd season hurdlers showing they have progressed.

Our Conor still has more to prove so while 3s the pair is ridicoulsly skinny, given they both have faults, I'd prefer to be in either camp.

Hurricane Fly looking more dangerous but can't shake the image of Ruby scrubbing him along coming downhill last year. If there had been a binocular like burst of speed from the bend - just as TNO is capable of - he wouldn't have got up IMHO.
 
Aragorn said:
Not saying he would. Just saying he'll beat MTOY at Cheltenham and I'd stand by that.

Whether he can beat Our Conor, Jezki or the champ is a different matter.

Whatever happens this looks a vintage year if they all turn up.
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I think they would both be better at Cheltenham than today and will be hard to split in the Champion. Between them they set a cracking standard. If Ireland have anything better among the young pretenders fair play, but it would have to be very good.
 
EC1 said:
would the new Golden Cygnet be good enough?

thats what they will have to beat come next March
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Genuine question for you here EC
With your clock based admiration of Our Conor well known
I was checking out the times of the previous Triumphs
2013 4m 11
2012 3m 58
2o13 3m 54
Is sectional times the important part or as above the end of race time?
And is a wide margin victory always an indicator of being well-in or capable of much better( I backed a winner today at wincanton on this basis)
Genuine question as im keen to learn
Thanks
 
fonz said:
Genuine question for you here EC
With your clock based admiration of Our Conor well known
I was checking out the times of the previous Triumphs
2013 4m 11
2012 3m 58
2o13 3m 54
Is sectional times the important part or as above the end of race time?
And is a wide margin victory always an indicator of being well-in or capable of much better( I backed a winner today at wincanton on this basis)
Genuine question as im keen to learn
Thanks
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Race times are only comparable on the day with other race times Fonz...and on the day OC won the ground was changing..i did work out the amount the ground was softening between races the day OC won and made a comparison with the county hurdle..I posted my findings on OHR forum where Warbler posts i seem to remember...if you go on there and search you'll find it

I didn't bother posting them on here as you get comments like the above ..95% of this forum have no interest in time ..its boring and has no real place in finding winners..so i'm told on a regular basis..by people who know lots more than I do....like Clive.

The time did point to the highest figure any novice has ever recorded...and the form now has backed that up with what the placed horses have done from the Triumph.

Warbler also concluded it was an immense figure

but what do we know?..we just geeks;)

only thing that impresses on here is "info",,,which is basically tips for idle people:)
 
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Problem EC is that however good a horse looks on one race, they don't always produce subsequent performances to match.

Yes he'd also looked good prior to that but 5/1 3 months away is plenty short enough for a horse who is yet to run outside novice company, in what looks a very hot year.

He could well be the next Golden Cygnet but he's going to need to be at least close.
 
wilsonl said:
Problem EC is that however good a horse looks on one race, they don't always produce subsequent performances to match.

Yes he'd also looked good prior to that but 5/1 3 months away is plenty short enough for a horse who is yet to run outside novice company, in what looks a very hot year.

He could well be the next Golden Cygnet but he's going to need to be at least close.
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fair points..any horse can just stop performing to a certain level..Sprinter Sacre could just stop being as good ..they aren't machines.

but we do have to look for clues during a horse's development..we saw it with Sprinter Sacre..best rated novice..we saw it because we compared him with past novices and knew he was something else

to me we have a similar situation with OC..he not only took apart a decent field of novices..he did it without breaking sweat in a time that had you rubbing your eyes..a performance that we as punters dream about seeing each time we watch a big race.

i keep seeing a comparison with Detroit City on other forums..which to me is a bit odd. DC won by 5 lengths..under pressure from a horse that was rated 140 for 18 months after running in the triumph. That is small potatoes compared with OC's performance.
 
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EC1 said:
The time did point to the highest figure any novice has ever recorded...and the form now has backed that up with what the placed horses have done from the Triumph.





only thing that impresses on here is "info",,,which is basically tips for idle people:)
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Does Sametegal finishing position in today race not throw a spanner in the above?
 
EC1 said:
Race times are only comparable on the day with other race times Fonz...and on the day OC won the ground was changing..i did work out the amount the ground was softening between races the day OC won and made a comparison with the county hurdle..I posted my findings on OHR forum where Warbler posts i seem to remember...if you go on there and search you'll find it

I didn't bother posting them on here as you get comments like the above ..95% of this forum have no interest in time ..its boring and has no real place in finding winners..so i'm told on a regular basis..by people who know lots more than I do....like Clive.

The time did point to the highest figure any novice has ever recorded...and the form now has backed that up with what the placed horses have done from the Triumph.

Warbler also concluded it was an immense figure

but what do we know?..we just geeks;)

only thing that impresses on here is "info",,,which is basically tips for idle people:)
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Interesting stuff EC thanks.
 
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