Coral Eclipse

Bar the Bull said:
I knew he was a very good horse. All this thrashing of the Aussie form hacked me off a bit. International classifications and RPR showed he was a top horse last year.
Click to expand...

I said this before Ascot and nobody took any notice, he was always close to being a 130 horse on Oz form. For me I just thought the prices for both his starts didn't respect the level of his opposition who were rated as high as him.

I did my money on Workforce big time but the winner impressed me and I even think AOB might be getting more improvement out of him. International could be a blinder with him, Canford and Frankel all possibles.

Suspect the Arc is doubtful for him, AOB was keen to mention the Cox Plate after the race which would make the Arc impossible and given their ammo for the race, it wouldn't surprise me if they sent him back to Oz for a swansong, presumably after the Irish Champion.
 
Sri Putra gets a 122 performance figure today. He got a 119 in the PofW (though there are arguments for putting that race up on the back of todays form). He got a 120 in the Goodwood Stakes last year, and a 121 for his run in the Eclipse (a much weaker version) in 2010. It may sound excessive if compared with BHA/RPR scales, but as bears repeating, they are not one and the same.

Timeform don't 'hail' So You Think much more than they did previously. So You Think and Workforce were both rated 133 coming into the race and have taken the view that Workforce ran to his best and that So You Think found a bit more.

The race today was very straightforward to assess, the best horse beat the second best horse with no excuses needed for anything.

Now as much as I'd like to continue this debate where we all go round in circles are regurgutate our same old opinions, I've got some boxing to go and watch and some strongbow to drink.

Enjoy your evening, even you Clive, though I'm reliably informed that Bart Cummins couldn't give a (Castlemaine) XXXX what you think!
 
clivex said:
For those who got upset at the supposed english trashing of the aussie form (the real issue) it would have been somewhat more helpful if there had been some supporting evidence to back your faith in it. Other than nominating elvestroem....

One good thing about the result is that it should shut up any sneering at aob by bart simpson whilst also confirming its not easy racing over here
Click to expand...

Professionals do it. RPR, international classifications, etc.

It is a very hard thing to do. But they had him very close to the top.

And Elvstroem wasn't the only horse I nominated. I included him in the interests of balance. Something you seem reluctant to employ.

And that Bart Simpson gag is just as funny now as the first time you used it.
 
One last question to throw to the board. What was the value bet in the race? So You Think at 11/10 or Workforce at 2's? I'll say both!
 
AOB could so easily have trotted out your line about receiving a half fit poorly trained porkadelic which has took 3 runs to get fit
Click to expand...

But you missed the interview...?

"Listen, he isnt the brightest horse weve had but hes a very good horse. Weve had to spend the last three months weaning him off tinnies but he still goes on about how cold it is here and bangs on about how everything is better in Sydney. Hes got the speed to win a July cup but frankly we cant wait for him to piss off home"
 
And Elvstroem wasn't the only horse I nominated. I included him in the interests of balance. Something you seem reluctant to employ.
Click to expand...

I didnt look at the others. Was too stunned by that example...

I think where you say "its a very hard thing to do" is exactly my point. I wouldnt bet one against another on the basis of classifications where theres no collateral form. Of course they have to make a judgement and nothing wrong with that, but my point always was that his form was in a bubble.

Nice horse though.
 
Last edited:
Euronymous said:
With Klitchsko available at 11/10 to win inside the distance tonight there was always an easy option of getting the stake money back within 12 hours.
Click to expand...

I'm mad to have a bet but wouldn't have a clue. Will jump on the bandwagon with you if it's a strong fancy?
 
Haye is overmatched tonight, he has less chance than Hatton did against Mayweather. The only doubt is Klitchsko is a bit of a hit and run artist but will be motivated enough to try and KO the Brit tonight given the bad blood between them.
 
Klitscho to win in;

Round 10 20/1
Round 11 25/1
Round 12 25/1

Had a bet on all three of these. I do think Klitscho will weather an early storm from Haye, catch him, and then procede to take him apart in the latter stages.
 
The first thing to note about the times today is that the 10f course overall is slower than the the shorter distances

i think you will find that Topspeed may make the 2 x 10f races slow speed figures..when in fact they weren't.

thank goodness we had the handicap over 10 later..which is a key race for rating the Eclipse...that race was truly run and using that race to put a speed figure on So You Think..gives SYT a 125 speed figure

If anyone makes figures and uses the other distances..they will get a false figure for both 10f races..a low false figure.

This tells me that WF has underperformed today..as we know that the eclipse was solidly run there is every reason to say that the speed figure puts a pretty accurate raing to teh Eclipse.

Workforce..when he won the Derby got a 129 on my figures..and that was without wfa..so its fair to say that today he has run probably 10lb below his best..a combination of trip and ground has probably been the cause of this.

I don't think SYT is any super horse..if he was..he would have run much faster given that the race was run to suit a very decent speed figure if those taking part were capable.

For me WF on easier ground and over 12f will always beat SYT
 
Last edited:
davidjohnson said:
One last question to throw to the board. What was the value bet in the race? So You Think at 11/10 or Workforce at 2's? I'll say both!
Click to expand...

SYT is now superb value;)

before the race ..neither..because it wasn't possible to put a figure on the number of lbs WF would run below his best..due to ground and lesser degree ..trip...now i know its about 10..it makes SYT look real good;)
 
EC1 said:
The first thing to note about the times today is that the 10f course overall is slower than the the shorter distances

i think you will find that Topspeed may make the 2 x 10f races slow speed figures..when in fact they weren't.

thank goodness we had the handicap over 10 later..which is a key race for rating the Eclipse...that race was truly run and using that race to put a speed figure on So You Think..gives SYT a 125 speed figure

If anyone makes figures and uses the other distances..they will get a false figure for both 10f races..a low false figure.

This tells me that WF has underperformed today..as we know that the eclipse was solidly run there is every reason to say that the speed figure puts a pretty accurate raing to teh Eclipse.

Workforce..when he won the Derby got a 129 on my figures..and that was without wfa..so its fair to say that today he has run probably 10lb below his best..a combination of trip and ground has probably been teh cause of this.

I don't think SYT is any super horse..if he was..he would have run much faster given that the race was run to suit a very decent speed figure if those taking part were capable.

For me WF on easier ground and over 12f will always beat SYT
Click to expand...

That is very interesting, thanks.
 
Good stuff EC (i think)

But why should the 10f course be that much slower than the mile?
 
clivex said:
Good stuff EC (i think)

But why should the 10f course be that much slower than the mile?
Click to expand...

the first 3 furlong of the race ..think they reported it was a bit slower on that part in the RP

from 8f onwards..which comes from a short chute anyway.. the track gets more racing..then from 7f point even more racing making the ground quite compacted over time..the 10f race has fewer horses flattening it basically

i know that most will use those shorter distance times for forming a GA..but the 10f handicap shows that at least part of the 10f was slower than the rest..that race was truly run..and is a far more accurate marker for the big race than any of the shorter trips...but it looks 10lb slow when compared to the other distances.

This also happens at Epsom ...some years..the Derby and 12f handicap are out of line with all the other distances..i'll wager for the same flattening of track reason
 
There was a fairly big festival in town today and I was on family duty but I escaped for 15 minutes and eventually found a pub where they agreed to show the racing.I sat at the bar,quick chat with the landlord and just as the race went off I heard two people come in behind me.
I had a half decent lay of SYT and onnat least 6 seperate occasions the boys proclaimed SYT beaten before giving a loud roar when he won the race.
The last race of any interest that I watched in a pub was Psychos County Hurdle and I don't know how anyone does it on a regular basis.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top