Coral Eclipse

Aragorn

At the Start
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Messages
3,698
The Grand Prix de Saint Cloud run today was probably the best 12f race of the year so far; this could be the best 10f race run all year, particularly if the first four in the betting show up.

After yesterdays Irish Derby, there can be little doubt that this years Epsom form is strong in 3yo terms; the Eclipse will hopefully tell us how that stacks up against the older form, the Prince of Wales's Stakes being the key form line. We are also given the rare opportunity to see the English/French Derby winners take each other on in the Eclipse. It may end up being a small field but a very select one.

Golden Horn will surely relish the test of Sandown and has already shown he has speed and stamina in abundance. Frankie is on fire as well so there will be plenty of assistance from the saddle.

I thought New Bay was just as impressive as his English counterpart in winning French Derby but the form has taken some knocks and I think he has a bit to find with the favourite.

The Grey Gatsby and (Hopefully) Free Eagle represent the older brigade and must be two of the best 10f horses around. TGG needs a strong pace to run at and is a little one dimensional whereas Free Eagle looks to have a turn of foot and in my opinion is the biggest danger to Golden Horn.

I'm assuming Gleneagles won't be running but if he did it would be a hell of a race. Even if he did though, I think Golden Horn will ultimately prove himself to best middle distance colt around.
 
hope free eagle takes his chance. be interesting to see golden horn against what's probably the best older middle distance horses in the uk/ireland. hard to oppose him tbh.
 
Yes looks another good race to look forward to however Free Eagle's current price of 10/1 (when you compare it to 4/1 for TGG)would indicate he may not be running here.
 
Just five in the Coral-Eclipse @Sandownpark: Golden Horn, Western Hymn, Tullius, Cougar Mountain and The Grey Gatsby.

disappointing. this flat season has been fallen short so far.
 
Shame New Bay is out. He would have given the fav a race for sure if handling the quicker ground.
Will be interesting to see how the fav deals with TGG.

What with Karpino ruled of the German Derby aswell, disappointing.
 
Shame New Bay is out. He would have given the fav a race for sure if handling the quicker ground.
Will be interesting to see how the fav deals with TGG.

What with Karpino ruled of the German Derby aswell, disappointing.

TGG can't win a tactical race can he?..Golden Horn can with his tactical speed.

. To be fair..anyone that hasn't seem Golden Horn's win at Nottigham ..i'd recommend viewing it..it shows what a turn of foot the horse really had even at a mile..his finish there is one of the fastest splits recorded there and he did it at the end of an evenly run race..only really good horses can do that...its not an everyday occurence

This horse is the real deal in that it will take a 130+ horse to beat him..no matter what pace they go..he has tactical pace ahead of anything around at the moment

best just enjoy him..he is an above average animal with few chinks..if any ..well that those around at the moment can expose anyway. Jack Hobbs would win a fair few Derbys in the last 20 years..he has been unlucky to bump into one. Where people are getting a reversal with Golden Horn if they meet again from..i'd just ask how?
 
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TGG can't win a tactical race can he?..Golden Horn can with his tactical speed.

. To be fair..anyone that hasn't seem Golden Horn's win at Nottigham ..i'd recommend viewing it..it shows what a turn of foot the horse really had even at a mile..his finish there is one of the fastest splits recorded there and he did it at the end of an evenly run race..only really good horses can do that...its not an everyday occurence

This horse is the real deal in that it will take a 130+ horse to beat him..no matter what pace they go..he has tactical pace ahead of anything around at the moment

best just enjoy him..he is an above average animal with few chinks..if any ..well that those around at the moment can expose anyway. Jack Hobbs would win a fair few Derbys in the last 20 years..he has been unlucky to bump into one. Where people are getting a reversal with Golden Horn if they meet again from..i'd just ask how?

Small field, tactical race wouldn't be up TGG street so will be interesting to see how 'easily' he's dealt with. This assuming he's taken the Derby well.
I couldn't see him beat in the Derby. He did though take a bit longer to hit top gear than I expected. The course may have had a play there. Very impressive at the finish.

As for Jack Hobbs. All he did was stamp the form at the weekend but I actually thought he travelled just as sweet off the slower pace that he may just improve further still.
I wouldn't be surprised if he got closer if they meet again. That's for another day.

Am assuming Moore will be on Cougar Mountain and not TGG.
He'll be interesting going up in trip if there is no pace.
 
TGG can't win a tactical race can he?..Golden Horn can with his tactical speed.

. To be fair..anyone that hasn't seem Golden Horn's win at Nottigham ..i'd recommend viewing it..it shows what a turn of foot the horse really had even at a mile..his finish there is one of the fastest splits recorded there and he did it at the end of an evenly run race..only really good horses can do that...its not an everyday occurence

This horse is the real deal in that it will take a 130+ horse to beat him..no matter what pace they go..he has tactical pace ahead of anything around at the moment

best just enjoy him..he is an above average animal with few chinks..if any ..well that those around at the moment can expose anyway. Jack Hobbs would win a fair few Derbys in the last 20 years..he has been unlucky to bump into one. Where people are getting a reversal with Golden Horn if they meet again from..i'd just ask how?[/QUOTE


Agree EC 2-0 to Golden Horn, each win very comfortable.
 
Small field, tactical race wouldn't be up TGG street so will be interesting to see how 'easily' he's dealt with. This assuming he's taken the Derby well.
I couldn't see him beat in the Derby. He did though take a bit longer to hit top gear than I expected. The course may have had a play there. Very impressive at the finish.

As for Jack Hobbs. All he did was stamp the form at the weekend but I actually thought he travelled just as sweet off the slower pace that he may just improve further still.
I wouldn't be surprised if he got closer if they meet again. That's for another day.

Am assuming Moore will be on Cougar Mountain and not TGG.
He'll be interesting going up in trip if there is no pace.


give us a selection then Frankel...what wins it?
 
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That Golden Horn made his 2yo debut over an extended 1m says much about his tactical speed, that he just beat a horse that is now favourite for the Leger confirms it.
 
That Golden Horn made his 2yo debut over an extended 1m says much about his tactical speed, that he just beat a horse that is now favourite for the Leger confirms it.

with that view i assume you are laying for your life then?...you are saying he has little chance of outspeeding 10f horses in a slow run race?

good luck with the lay

he gave him a good start and ran him down in a very fast sectional time..on top of taking part in a true run race. You have viewed the race like RPR did..who rated him bottom for the fielden..when in fact he had put in the best maiden performance of last season.

i think he is faster than you are assuming tbh
 
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the race is a shadow of itself since the prince of wales is a group 1 race.
If you have a top older horse there are much more interesting races to be won with him like the PofW, International, both champions....etc
 
the strength in depth of the race since the PoW became a Gp1 is possibly weaker, but the roll of honour still reads well (better than the PoW IMO)


[TABLE="width: 436"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Prince Of Wales Stakes[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Eclipe Stakes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2000[/TD]
[TD]Dubai Millennium[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2000[/TD]
[TD]Giant's Causeway[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2001[/TD]
[TD]Fantastic Light[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2001[/TD]
[TD]Medicean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2002[/TD]
[TD]Grandera[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2002[/TD]
[TD]Hawk Wing[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2003[/TD]
[TD]Nayef[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2003[/TD]
[TD]Falbrav[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2004[/TD]
[TD]Rakti[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2004[/TD]
[TD]Refuse to Bend[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2005[/TD]
[TD]Azamour [/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2005[/TD]
[TD]Oratorio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2006[/TD]
[TD]Ouija Board[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2006[/TD]
[TD]David Junior[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2007[/TD]
[TD]Manduro[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2007[/TD]
[TD]Notnowcato[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2008[/TD]
[TD]Duke of Marmalade[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2008[/TD]
[TD]Mount Nelson[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2009[/TD]
[TD]Vision d'Etat[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2009[/TD]
[TD]Sea the Stars[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2010[/TD]
[TD]Byword[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2010[/TD]
[TD]Twice Over[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2011[/TD]
[TD]Rewilding[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2011[/TD]
[TD]So You Think[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2012[/TD]
[TD]So You Think[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2012[/TD]
[TD]Nathaniel[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2013[/TD]
[TD]Al Kazeem[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2013[/TD]
[TD]Al Kazeem[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2014[/TD]
[TD]The Fugue[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD="align: right"]2014[/TD]
[TD]Mukhadram[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]2015[/TD]
[TD]Free Eagle[/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]



[TABLE="width: 196"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Eclipse Stakes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1990[/TD]
[TD]Elmaamul[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1991[/TD]
[TD]Environment Friend[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1992[/TD]
[TD]Kooyonga[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1993[/TD]
[TD]Opera House[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1994[/TD]
[TD]Ezzoud[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1995[/TD]
[TD]Halling[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1996[/TD]
[TD]Halling[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1997[/TD]
[TD]Pilsudski[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1998[/TD]
[TD]Daylami[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: right"]1999[/TD]
[TD]Compton Admiral[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]
 
TJack Hobbs would win a fair few Derbys in the last 20 years..he has been unlucky to bump into one. Where people are getting a reversal with Golden Horn if they meet again from..i'd just ask how?

If they meet in the Arc and Jack Hobbs has had the summer off followed by a nice perp in the Niel whereas Golden Horn has run multiple times in top 10f races and has had enough by October. That's how.
 
GH will have a hard campaign during the summer because he doesn't like soft ground. If there is cut in the ground at Paris in October and the horse has shown enough at that point it wouldn't surprise if he doesn't even run there.
At the prices I'd much rather back JH than GH even though the latter is a better horse.
 
Isnt TGG almost a free bet here. I think that 7/2 is about a point too big. JH did win well at the Curragh but only showed his class over the same bunch of half-ok 3yos last week, but Im not sure that it did anything like franking the Derby form as some suggested. I suspect that Free Eagle would be a 9/4 shot in a match against Golden Horn. Not sure why The Grey Gatsby isnt, when he was arguably the moral winner at Ascot. Golden Horn was very impressive, so was Motivator. Looks a proper champion but too short against TGG.
 
TGG was a revelation in the first-time blinds at Ascot, and travelled much sweeter than he had at Leopardstown, looking the best horse in the PoW from some way out. That form alone puts him closer to GH than the current betting suggests.
 
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If they meet in the Arc and Jack Hobbs has had the summer off followed by a nice perp in the Niel whereas Golden Horn has run multiple times in top 10f races and has had enough by October. That's how.

what if its other way round..do we know they are going to run GH into the ground?

wasn't really talking about the Arc..my point was that i was getting the idea that people thought the IDerby win for Jack somehow now made him able to beat GH..which puzzled me.
 
Not so much run him into the ground but you can see him having a busy summer and there's no point given him an ideal Arc prep if the ground comes up soft. I was just illustrating the conditions where I could see a reversal of form.
 
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