Coral Eclipse

tbh i try not have any opinion until i see something that makes me sway one way or tother ..there is no point in making it fit to suit..i used to do it..want horses to be as good as i believed..i now just let the figures tell me...which isn't everyone's bag.

yes they are beating top yards..and they look head and shoulders above rest

as you say..we have time to see lots more yet..AOB isn't strong this year middle distance..and we have stables now filling that void..my view is i don't want horses to be winning just because AOB's lot aren't doing it..i want to know if those filling that void are doing so because they are better than par. Thats why i go by figures. You will get people saying..well such and such is only winning because AOB is weak in that area..it will be said at some point. The figures will tell me if that is the case or not
 
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I dont think sea the stars was a better horse than dancing brave because one won the derby and the other not.


golden horn didnt win the guineas because he didnt run on it.
i think he is a similar horse to sea the stars at this stage of their careers, similar figures for me and similar types.

the cv is important but not all, just imagine frankel and sea the stars were born in the same year, does anyone think sst would have beaten frankel? No way
 
Sea The Stars went into the Derby on 121, into the Eclipse on 124 and came out on 133.
Golden Horn went into the Derby on 118, into the Eclipse on 126. It will be interesting to see what he gets for Saturday.
 
Anyone can make a comparison with Sea the Star and say he was better before the fat lady sings.

Wasn't it Nashwan that Timeform put up after he finished career because of what the horses he beat achieved after his retirement?

Way too early to be comparing Golden Horn to anything......He may yet end up at The Breeders which would be a lot more sensible that training him for the Arc when the ground could go against him at the last minute.

If he can win the likes of the King George and the Breeders and take another big race in between then he could easily end up outranking STS especially if jack Hobbs can frank the form again.
 
Tanlic said:
Anyone can make a comparison with Sea the Star and say he was better before the fat lady sings.

Wasn't it Nashwan that Timeform put up after he finished career because of what the horses he beat achieved after his retirement?

Way too early to be comparing Golden Horn to anything......He may yet end up at The Breeders which would be a lot more sensible that training him for the Arc when the ground could go against him at the last minute.

If he can win the likes of the King George and the Breeders and take another big race in between then he could easily end up outranking STS especially if jack Hobbs can frank the form again.
Click to expand...

Agree with that
Good point
 
Unlikely to be suited to the small oval at Keeneland, and don't recall any recent Derby winner taking in a Breeders Cup. The main objection to the Arc seems to be the ground, but it's often good or better and he can be supplemented just 3 days before, apparently.
Best keep him to 12f if they wish to remain unbeaten; he's unlikely to take in York if he goes for the KG, and the ground for the English and Irish Champions is often softer than Longchamp anyway.
 
Golden Horn (141p) tops the Weight Adjusted Timeform Ratings for the King George by some way, Free Eagle (136) is second highest
 
Someone explain to me why Phil Smith said Golden Horn was the only 3yo to get a 130 rating since 1996?

Wasn't Sea the Stars given a 133 rating after he won the Eclipse?
 
edgt said:
Mark Of Esteem pulled a huge rating in QEII Stakes.
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Yep - this was the one I was thinking of - his beating of Bosra Sham (curses to him for that!!!!) got him a very high rating. The other 3 year olds about that year were not top, top drawer. Although, whilst watching the replay of the race ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPLp4ZYzlE), the field was tremendous - 2000 Guineas winner (Mark Of Esteem) Poulains and Moulin winner (Ashkalani), 1000 Guineas winner (Bosra Sham), the POW and Susses Stakes winner (First Island), the Queen Anne winner (Charnwood Forest), St James Palace winner (Bijou D'Inde) and the double Lockinge winner (Soviet Line).

This should be in the greatest races thread.
 
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