Coral Gold Cup (Hennessey)

If Pumpkin had him he wouldn't have gone anywhere near Wetherby. Horrible training, horrible.

The flat has Stoute,Gosden,Haggas,Balding, Cox and Burke for the sprinters, some others like Charlie Hills who has improved. In the UK you have Nicholls and Hendo over jumps. Who else? It's such hard work week to week.
 
Aye but the way he ran at Wetherby he wouldn't have been winning this would he mate?

I get your point but ultimately he has just gone backwards since last season. You wasn't to know that though.

I am wanting a really good show from Grumpy Charley tomorrow at Bangor.

He's a second season chaser and my thinking is all based on the notion he will improve this season.

But there's the risk he won't improve at all, or could even go backwards.
 
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He wasn't fit at Wetherby, It was a pointless run. If you have a decent second season novice on a workable mark you get him to Newbury, Trablogan/Bob's Worth/Denman style without a run. It's poor training.
 
Euronymous said:
He wasn't fit at Wetherby, It was a pointless run. If you have a decent second season novice on a workable mark you get him to Newbury, Trablogan/Bob's Worth/Denman style without a run.
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Me too. I like the potential G1 second-season novices to get there fit and ready first time up.

I must admit I kind of wanted him to be prepping at Wetherby, though, and maybe that was the plan.

They'd seemed confident beforehand about how well he was.

On this occasion, I'm prepared to take what's happened at face value and assume that they've found a reason for the poor show and are acting accordingly. These things happen.

It might have been worse if he'd gone to Newbury first time up and run badly. They've now got time to get to the bottom of whatever the issue is and look at alternative targets. He was Timeform's ante-post tip for the KG at 16/1 and has gone out to 33s. I didn't fancy him at the shorter odds but Timeform clearly liked something about him so I've gone in at 33/1 'cos that's the contrary little cuss I can be at times :lol:
 
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Euronymous said:
Ahoy Senor taken out. The list of jumps trainers I trust in the UK is two I think.
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Why though Euro? Let's be honest, you have no idea about the well being of the horse. I respect your views most of the time, but come on Euro, this is right harsh. Seriously you cannot limit the trainers who are good at their jobs down to two, bloody hell. I know that is wrong, there are so many able trainers, come on, let's be real here.
 
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There's some evidence that Newbury was never the target for Ahoy Senor, whereas it definitely has always been for Corach Rambler. Think the Colin Parker was carefully chosen for CR's comeback.

Believe Ahoy's next target is the Many Clouds.
 
EC21 said:
Why though Euro? Let's be honest, you have no idea about the well being of the horse. I respect your views most of the time, but come on Euro, this is right harsh. Seriously you cannot limit the trainers who are good at their jobs down to two, bloody hell. I know that is wrong, there are so many able trainers, come on, let's be real here.
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Agree with this,most trainers are smarter than punters give them credit for:
Derek said that Ahoy Senor ran a bit free and it took his energy away. I'm just delighted he's back safe - that's the important thing. We'll see how he is over the next few days. It's his first run of the season. I think we'll stick with the plans that we had and probably go to Aintree for the Many Clouds Chase - Lucinda Russell, trainer.
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Seems that Ahoy Senor was there to blow the cobwebs away. Placing of horses is also an important consideration,imo.
 
chaumi said:
There's some evidence that Newbury was never the target for Ahoy Senor, whereas it definitely has always been for Corach Rambler. Think the Colin Parker was carefully chosen for CR's comeback.

Believe Ahoy's next target is the Many Clouds.
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Yes, there was a quote in the RP about the MC being the target. It isn't hard to forgive a horse a disappointing comeback run.
 
EC21 said:
Why though Euro? Let's be honest, you have no idea about the well being of the horse. I respect your views most of the time, but come on Euro, this is right harsh. Seriously you cannot limit the trainers who are good at their jobs down to two, bloody hell. I know that is wrong, there are so many able trainers, come on, let's be real here.
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I believe Ahoy Senor is a monster. And the race that cemented that for me was the run at Cheltenham where he jumped without economy and had a bad trip through the race and yet he still finished second, not beaten that far, by a horse who is a Gold Cup contender this season.

I don't think there are only two UK based NH trainers who are good at their job but the list of handlers I trust is very low, and it's a lot shorter than a list of trustworthy flat trainers. I don't mean trust as in not dodgy, just in terms of comfort level when I bet their horses.

Henderson and pumpkin trained Trabolgan, Bob's Worth and Denman to Hennessy success off of big weights - can you imagine Nicholls running the Tank in a ******* Charlie Hall? If Newbury was never the target for Ahoy Senor I can't really understand that. He was made for the race.
 
I agree that most trainers know what they are doing and what is best for their horses. In this case, though, the performance of AS at Wetherby was awful and worse than you’d expect from a prep run. I think it was a run that had them scratching their heads a bit. He seemed up for it first time out last year and although he unseated Fox late on he was going well.
 
Dunno,BJ - where else would you send a horse that was being prepped for a sharp LH 3 mile race, and off 161?
 
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barjon said:
True, don’t dispute it might have been a prep, but just thought the run was poor even from a prep point of view.
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Had a poor performance fto last year too.
Dunno why Euro's so keen on him. His Cheltenam 2nd was in a steadily run novice chase, that apart, any 3m runs have been around sharp tracks.
I'd believe the trainer when she says his target is at Aintree.
 
reet hard said:
Had a poor performance fto last year too.
Dunno why Euro's so keen on him. His Cheltenam 2nd was in a steadily run novice chase, that apart, any 3m runs have been around sharp tracks.
I'd believe the trainer when she says his target is at Aintree.
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First time out last year he was bang there when stumbled and unshipped Fox 2 out and you could argue that it was a prep run for Newbury where he ran a damn sight better than at Wetherby. Perhaps I speak through disappointment. I thought the race was going to be a right old ding dong and my money was with him.
 
Euronymous said:
An elite trainer would have had AS ready for Newbury. No prep bullshit.
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Some horses need a warm up though Euro. Have you looked at the type of tracks Ahoy has won at? Ayr, Aintree, Wetherby? It isn't like Wetherby was an unusual pick for the first run, ran free early too.
 
I've interrupted my study of the race to take an early punt on Velvet Elvis 33/1.

The Irish National is always good form and I've gone high with the most recent one. VE wasn't beaten too far in heavy ground on what was only something like his fifth chase. He's still only six and entitled to improve a lot into this season.

I've no idea if this race is on his agenda but surely they must be tempted by the huge pot and he'll need to go up a bit anyway if the long-term plan is Aintree. Normally I'd be against 7yos there but Noble Yeats blew that monkey apart last season.
 
EC21 said:
Some horses need a warm up though Euro. Have you looked at the type of tracks Ahoy has won at? Ayr, Aintree, Wetherby? It isn't like Wetherby was an unusual pick for the first run, ran free early too.
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The point is Ahoy Senor won't be going near the Hennessey, and his trainer knows the horse better than those who diss her ability.
 
barjon said:
I agree that most trainers know what they are doing and what is best for their horses. In this case, though, the performance of AS at Wetherby was awful and worse than you’d expect from a prep run. I think it was a run that had them scratching their heads a bit. He seemed up for it first time out last year and although he unseated Fox late on he was going well.
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Just read this, BJ:
He unseated Derek [Fox] on his first start last season when he was beaten and maybe he just needs to run to get going.
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Maybe she does know what she's doing?:)
 
I never suggested she didn’t :). The comment would hold better if he wasn’t going so well when he unseated Fox - ten times better than he was at Wetherby.
 
Ahoy Senor was already beaten when he tipped-up at Carlisle, barjon. The runs are more similar than dissimilar, imo.
 
Ok grassy (and reet) I didn’t look that closely - just saw he was up with the leading pack at the fence - so I won’t argue.
 
Looking through the card today ahead of tomorrow's 5-day dec stage, I don't see any penalty attached to Le Milos, which won 11 days ago, yet there is one noted next to Larry which won the other day.

Is this just the RP site not updating or is there a legit reason why LM would escape a penalty? It wasn't a conditionals' race, which is the only circumstance I know for avoiding a penalty other than taking a horse's weight beyond 12st, which wouldn't apply here anyway.

If the horse does avoid a penalty, for whatever reason, then it has to go down as a brilliant bit of placing by Skelton, with the horse going up 8lbs in future.

I would urge caution, though. I do suspect it's just a matter of the RP data not being up to date. But still, 4lbs well in isn't a negative.
 
That was the race Grumpy Charley ran in wasn't it.

I have to admit, even with that lovely weight he would carry, I was so disappointed with that pulled effort, that in my own mind I have written off his chance.

I'd see it as a semi victory were he to even turn up just so my anti post wager gets a run.

Or better still, Chris Honour declares him but he doesn't make the cut, in which case I will be refunded!

Le Milos won nicely that day.
 
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