Coronation Cup

Spot on DJ.

Remember a horse is a herd animal ... some just dont want to be at the front, silly as it may sound.
 
davidjohnson said:
Isn't that the interesting point though. He keeps running all the way to the line when there is a better oen to chase, put him in a race that his form suggests he should win, and he finds a way to grab defeat from the jaws of victory. A top-class Group 1 horse yes - in no way at a ll a betting proposition when seeming to face a straightforward task.
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So you think he deliberately pulled himself up and lost the race by 6 cm travelling at 45mph.
And course he was complitely awared of what winning is and what the winning post represents. This whole thing makes no sense to me at all.

I think he didn´t perform at his best on Friday and I tend to give credit to Flame. Maybe he wasn´t 100% fit.
 
Some horses have a reluctance to go past others, he's one of them. I don't think he ran to his best on Friday either, but give credit to what I see rather than hear.
 
davidjohnson said:
Some horses have a reluctance to go past others, he's one of them. I don't think he ran to his best on Friday either, but give credit to what I see rather than hear.
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Youmzain isn't entirely straight forward and some could argue he isn't top class because he needs things to be good for him.

His catalogue will tell you that a, he needs a strong gallop, b, he needs plenty of cover, c, he doesn't want fast ground and d, he does his best when running down the outside of his opposition.

The fact is he was given a bad ride in Dubai, and possibly Friday there could be some faults in Richard going early but you can't blame him he was absolutely cantering and its better to nick a length on one going to blow up rather than wait and need to make up a length blowing up. To consider that he has either run poorly or dogged it seems very harsh and therefore you are seriously insulting Ask, a horse whose from a family that improves with age and of late has been going toe to toe at home with Conduit and Tartan Bearer.

Tony Culhane and Kieren Fallon have both got results out of the horse and neither gave him easy rides lets say, so to say he is a pig and curls up under the whip is outrageous. Culhane should be riding him, he's the only bloody stable jockey that rides twice a week at the yard, has made family commitments to move to the yard and work 6 days a week there, yet doesn't get to ride the big horses in the big races. He is probably one of the best riders in this country when on song, if I was him I would be gutted I'm not riding Youmzain or Lalaleeb.

Look Here who was massively impressive in an Oaks and a non stayer in a Leger was a very close 3rd, with a vastly improving Duncan a further length or so back in 4th having won like a horse destined for the highest level at Ascot.

Too many people think it's easy to judge Youmzain on his L'Arc performances but it should be noted that in the L'Arc is the only time this horse genuinely gets to run with his needed juice in the ground which is when he really strides out. On very fast ground on an undulating track I do not blame Youmzain for say not giving it 100%, but he is in no way ungenuine.

He had been left rather short for this race having had a break to reacclimatise since returning from Dubai he has actually performed brilliantly. A lot of horses fail to find their feet from Dubai for a good few months which is often thought why Godolphin's horses often go missing until July / August time each year.

What you also must remember was that there was no real strong gallop in the race and Youmzain is not the type of horse to come there 2f out hard on the steel, that to me tells me it suited horses with a bit more speed, lets remember despite the yards doubts, Ask has shown enough pace to win in group company over 10f.

Youmzain also has a disadvantage at home of only being able to work with far inferior companions, something which could also be said of Look Here I suppose, but look at Ask, Sir Michael has quality a plenty which will get his horses added fitness as they are able to be worked harder in some regard.

Youmzain would be quite a lazy horse at home, but when he only really has Montaff (tailed off in Derby), Too Much Trouble (outclassed in Chester Vase) and Dream Desert (87 rated handicapper) to work with it pretty much sums up it would be very hard to get him to the track as fit as some.

He always has and always will be a horse that gets better as the season progresses and I remember saying last year and the year before partially the reason why he always looked a good bet in the L'Arc is because he is a late summer / autumn horse and knowing he can run to this level in the spring and early summer is a strong indication there is improvement to come later in the year.

People may say I'm being bias or defending him because of my history with the yard and having mates there, but bare one thing in mind, I did at least alert prior to the race he would improve and was not looking a bet to me, not something I would have done if I thought he was the second coming of Pegasus.
 
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Flame said:
Culhane should be riding him, he's the only bloody stable jockey that rides twice a week at the yard, has made family commitments to move to the yard and work 6 days a week there, yet doesn't get to ride the big horses in the big races. He is probably one of the best riders in this country when on song, if I was him I would be gutted I'm not riding Youmzain or Lalaleeb.
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His previous actions prevent that I'm afraid. He has a very dodgy past and he's also completely bobbins. He's not a Group One jockey in any way.
 
Gamla Stan said:
His previous actions prevent that I'm afraid. He has a very dodgy past and he's also completely bobbins. He's not a Group One jockey in any way.
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No one deserves a second chance then no ???

To show commitment and knuckle down and sort all your problems out and get back on the straight certainly should be commended and forgiven. By your token of response I suppose Kieren should be left to rot from September ?
 
Flame

with the slow early pace ...really slow...I think Youmzain has run a cracker..the make up of the race was completely wrong for him

I would be very pleased with where he finished tbh given the circumstances..

I'd be sticking a decent rated pacemaker in his races..one thats good enough to frighten the jocks that it might win if given enough rope

under these circs Youmzain could be mopping up races imo
 
Galileo said:
Watching it again and Hills looked terrible on Youmzain....what on earth was he sticking his arm out for on the line?
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It's that ridiculous thing he does to try to ensure that his horse's head is down as they pass the post. He'd be better off concentrating on driving his mount out for all he's worth.
 
Flame said:
No one deserves a second chance then no ???

To show commitment and knuckle down and sort all your problems out and get back on the straight certainly should be commended and forgiven. By your token of response I suppose Kieren should be left to rot from September ?
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Some do, some don't. I wouldn't let Fallon near a racing stable until he went and raised £100m for charity and openly declared it his penance for having been such a crook for so long.

Murtagh has a dodgy past but is everyone's darling. Even I like the guy.
 
Desert Orchid said:
Some do, some don't. I wouldn't let Fallon near a racing stable until he went and raised £100m for charity and openly declared it his penance for having been such a crook for so long.

Murtagh has a dodgy past but is everyone's darling. Even I like the guy.
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I reckon there is another story that goes with this:confused::p:whistle:
 
Flame said:
No one deserves a second chance then no ???

To show commitment and knuckle down and sort all your problems out and get back on the straight certainly should be commended and forgiven. By your token of response I suppose Kieren should be left to rot from September ?
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I don't think any of them caught up in any of the recent corruption scandals have clean noses. Some may have improved as their livelihoods were at risk but a leopard doesn't change it's spots when it comes to things like that.

Channon's is a big punting yard as it is and I'm not sure having someone like Culhane as the stable jockey is particularly beneficial in attracting new owners. He's given some horses some truly shocking rides in recent years, some much worse than say McKeown's Rascal In The Mix ride for example and got away with it. I was amazed he only got a year.
 
Channon's a punting yard, ha ha ha

I've heard everything now, it has never been a gambling yard, it wasn't when I worked there for 7 years and it sure as hell isn't now. Blimey if you backed Channon's horses you would go skint, too many runners and any juvenile with form is too short. Okay the odd one goes from 6/4 to 1/2 and wins, but that's hardly a gambling yard, its called making use of a situation where you have a decent horse in a weak race.
 
Flame said:
Channon's a punting yard, ha ha ha

I've heard everything now, it has never been a gambling yard, it wasn't when I worked there for 7 years and it sure as hell isn't now. Blimey if you backed Channon's horses you would go skint, too many runners and any juvenile with form is too short. Okay the odd one goes from 6/4 to 1/2 and wins, but that's hardly a gambling yard, its called making use of a situation where you have a decent horse in a weak race.
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Well Channon loves a bet!
 
Yes Gamla Youmzain in the Arc 66/1 was well backed by everyone that had connections with Channon.
 
He doesn't have to do it at the top level....

I'm not going to go into details on here but if you believe that Mick Channon doesn't love a bet on his own horses, you're incredibly mistaken.
 
But it's not a gambling yard Gamla. I know Mick bets and I've been there sometimes when he's backed one on course or rung someone to back one. But it's as I said it would be a 2yo 2nd time out or one working well. IS anyone with a brain would have backed Youmzain in the L'Arc given how well he was at home and the form of his run with Rail Link the year before looked outstanding.

My point is a gambling yard is one where they play about with their horses, handicap them over inadequate trips and then back them off the boards, and Channon's is not that type of yard.
 
I think rides like the one Culhane just gave Fantastic Dubai might be the reason he isn't riding animals like Youmzain and Lahaleeb.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamm
The Coronation Cup must be a priority ahead of the Gold Cup though?

I would think if he was fit (he may well be; Godolphin can be 'too' honest sometimes), he'd have a better chance tomorrow than in the Gold Cup.

SteveM said:
You would have thought so on the face of it. But given the statement that he'll need the race and the Dosage pointing to virtually boundless stamina potential, perhaps the reverse is true.
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Ajtebi takes the ride... Interesting at the odds.
 
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