Departures 2010

As I feared but had hoped it might just be a slipped stifle - MAD JACK DUNCAN, near-hind gone after landing, when going sweetly and nimbly in his chase. Another blow for the nascent Lawney Hill stable.
 
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That's also particularly cruel about the horse (ACEY) - his very first hurdles race after doing very well in Bumpers. RP says he was under pressure in 2nd place and fell two out - wretchedly sad.

I see the second last in the chase caused carnage, then. So much for moving that.
 
Gutted about Acey, he was a gorgeous horse and his new connections were so thrilled about having him. We were stood by them and everyone was in tears. He was never jumping well at all, seemed unable to get into any kind of rhythm and things got worse .... and worse. Awful. Did not know about Yellow Flag, sad too.
 
A big shame ACEY's jockey didn't PU if he was going so badly, then. At least he could've learned a little bit on a very big occasion, and lived to improve. Very sorry for his connections.
 
krizon said:
A big shame ACEY's jockey didn't PU if he was going so badly, then. At least he could've learned a little bit on a very big occasion, and lived to improve.
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You're doubtless coming out with this nonsense without watching the race, I take it, Krizon?
 
No, I'm coming out with it after reading one of our respected contributor's take on being there and seeing his race next to his connections, Rory. (See Isinglass above - "never jumping well, seemed unable to get into any kind of rhythm and things got worse... ") Is that nonsense? If my first-timer had been going like that, I'd definitely have preferred him to be PU or at least eased off. And I did see the race, albeit after a day out, on the Sporting Life website, if that's of any interest to you. I can't see how suggesting a course of alternative action to avoid a fatality is nonsense, but obviously you can. Even the brief RP analysis hints at Isinglass's observations: "jumped slowly, hit 9th, in rear until 4 out, driven, fell 2 out". It points to an inexperienced horse trying to find his way and I'll go with the observations of someone actually there who knows what they're talking about.
 
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krizon said:
Even the brief RP analysis hints at Isinglass's observations: "jumped slowly, hit 9th, in rear until 4 out, driven, fell 2 out". It points to an inexperienced horse trying to find his way and I'll go with the observations of someone actually there who knows what they're talking about.
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Genius - you've deliberately missed out the relevant information which suggests the horse wasn't "going so badly" as you had surmised without evidence. But I know you must have read it in order to excise it from your post, so I don't need to point it out to you. The fact that Isinglass was standing close to connections after the race doesn't mean that your mangling of her words has any validity. It's a shame that Acey was injured, and he was a lovely looking animal, but it certainly was no fault of Paddy Brennan's.
 
I've nowhere implied it was a fault of the jockey's. You have to be pretty weird to think I have. You seem hellbent on reading something into a suggestion which isn't there. You don't need to point anything out to me, thank you, Rory. I haven't 'mangled' any words at all - do you perhaps need a sight test? Read what she has actually written, very slowly if necessary, and not what you apparently want to see. I take you also actually saw the race? The evidence is watching a televised race, and going by what someone I respect has observed with her own eyes. Other than actually riding in a race, I'd suggest that's probably enough. Over and out.
 
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Sorry Kri, but it does indeed read like you are blaming the jockey for the fatal fall in saying that he should have pulled the animal up before he fell.
 
K - the horse had made some headway coming down the hill and had he not fallen would probably have plugged on into 3rd . I think Isinglass was probably referring to the fact that his price suggested that they expected a better run -nobody was to blame - it was just a very unfortunate accident.
 
Ardross - for the last time on this sad subject: I never laid any blame anywhere, okay? I merely had the wild and crazy idea to suggest - and forgive me, I shall wear a frickin' hair shirt for 20 years - that perhaps easing off or PU might've been better given the way he'd been going as a first time-outer. Yes, he made headway - as per 'driven', I assume? I did look at the race on the Sporting Life site and I wouldn't argue with the observations by Isinglass that he jumped slowly or with the fact he hit one, or with the fact that he was being driven, as in ridden hard, to the fatal fence. It's a damn sad thing - I'm not trying to score any points on anything, but just that as an unknown quantity, having his first attempt at hurdling, easing off might not have resulted in the fall. But who the feck knows? He's dead and it's all academic. BUT I HAVE NOT SAID HIS FALL WAS ANYONE'S FAULT, FFS, and have no reason to think that pushing him out caused it. He was probably tiring and possibly losing concentration, which happens.

Found out today that it was MAD JACK DUNCAN's pastern that gave way, rather than the leg - connections of the yard's SARAH'S GIFT came in and we discussed it.

Shadz - thanks for that. I can't believe he was 24! It just doesn't seem that long ago we were watching him competing. Time seems to be hurtling by - which reminds me... no, not ERTLON, but ICANOPIT. I was mulling over old timers the other day and tried to look up his age (if he's still alive) but, strangely, there was no reference found under 'Horses' in the RP database. He was a nice little horse I liked years ago - but it's probably at least a decade since he last raced, now I think about it!
 
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Re Acey, hindsight is a wonderful thing but if he was going to be thrid, or fourth, I think it was reasonable for the jock to keep going with him, without (pardon the pun) killing him. It's always sad when one comes to grief fatally but most times they stand up and connections are happy to come third and move onwards and upwards rather than running down the track wondering if he's ok when he pulls up. Sometimes the jock is to blame for being pure stoooopid and going on when the horse is legless. I didn't see the race so can't comment but maybe it was a borderline case and which side of the fence you come down on is up to your opinion when you're watching the race. The end result is the same and I don't think there is too much to be gained from debating a fatal fall when life is about tomorrow, not yesterday. RIP Acey.
 
All of that's probably true, Cantoris. I didn't realise I would court any controversy by suggesting that an ease-up might've been beneficial, but we are a forum and it's all about viewpoints. Hopefully, we can close that one out and discuss happier things. Like your horses' next win!
 
Mad Jack 's leg gave way when he left it in the water according to Lydia H on RUK - I agree we should get rid of them - another trap.
 
Why not just get rid of all fences - then we can run the Festival as a series of bumpers over varying distances. (maybe this is their idea for a 5th day)
 
Simon said:
Why not just get rid of all fences - then we can run the Festival as a series of bumpers over varying distances. (maybe this is their idea for a 5th day)
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I have no problem with fences - the fences I have a problem with are those that catch out a horse that jumps it perfectly well. That is what is unfair about some of them.
 
Yes, it was at the water, and his pastern went, Ardross. The water jumps don't kill anywhere near as many horses as sloppy hurdling does. There are probably more deaths in Bumpers, in fact, because there aren't that many water jumps left to take. But I don't hear clamour to ban those events.

Horses should be capable of jumping most reasonable obstacles, although they'd only jump in their natural state to find better grazing, a mate, or to escape predation. We are already putting them through an artificial process every time we put them onto a racecourse, into a jumping arena, or pulling carts - in fact, in every aspect of human use. But as they can jump, there's less reason to abandon water than the far more artificial open ditch. If we don't want to risk them at all, we shouldn't use them in any context.

You have only to watch a few rounds by eventers to know that a water jump is a piece of piss - of course fatalities occur at them occasionally, but they occur at the ditches and the uprights far more often. We went through this exercise (where were you?) a couple of years ago, when the issue was debated, and out of over 300 NH fatalities in one year, only two were attributable to dropping into the water. Put that into the context of the thousands of runs (horse x races per year) and calling for the water jump to be dropped is a vast over-reaction.

Once again (Shadow Leader prepares her crossbow) - look at French chasing. A wonderful, interesting variety of obstacles which engage both horse and rider far more than our dreadful rote of upright, upright, upright, open ditch, upright, upright, upright, open ditchzzzzzz... oops! And one water! Jeez, it's a wonder any of our nags want to go chasing after two seasons at it. I am sure that many 'mistakes' are no more than falling into comatose boredom with the sameness of it all. That doesn't happen in eventing - courses are never the same, internationally, from year to year. Maybe that's why, facing immensely challenging obstacles at speed, eventers keep going into their late teens, even up to 20 years, without dying at the rate of our chasers?
 
And while I'm at it, I might as well remind you, Ardross old dear, that as a critic of the perceived dumbing-down of racing, NH can't have dumbed down its courses much more than it has over the years. If you think that national hunt racing has its origins in steeplechasing - hunters galloping over farmlands, taking gates, fence posts, hedges, ditches, streams, and stone walls in their stride - and that today hunters will still take a lot of those, in spite of the grubbing-up of many hedgerows, then today's courses are piss-poor in their challenge to chasers, which still carry strong hunter genes in the purpose-breds.

Far from removing the final vestiges of challenge and interest, we should be bringing more back - which is why the Cheltenham 'cross-country' (a far more genuine hunt course) shouldn't be seen as some sort of anomaly. It should be the norm, not the exception. When 'jumps racing' (you really can't call it national hunt) regains some of its heritage, then I might begin to think of it as 'proper' racing, as its devotees like to aver. Until then, the Flat hasn't seen fit to dicker around and do away with turns, dips, cambers and rises, thank God, retaining the quirkiness of its grass tracks to challenge competitors.
 
Not a horse that rose to great heights, but still gave his owners a great time up to the age of 12 - IDLE POWER (trained by Jim Boyle) - is now giving prisoners in Suffolk a lot of enjoyment. He's a resident at one of the gaols, where inmates care for and adore him. However, it's been suggested that they're only planning a cunning escape on him later!
 
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