Donald Trump

[pawras]

In the end the only people that are going decide what happens with Ukraine are Trump & Putin.
Europe & UK have ran down their military capabilities too far to have much say at the big boy table.
If USA walks then Putin will get even more of Ukraine.

 

[Len Madeiros]

So this was taken from a post on Facebook and its an alternative view. I wondered what opinions are on this:

Many of you probably watched what took place between Donald Trump and Zelenskyy tonight. Whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you might be thinking to yourself, Oh my God, Donald Trump just screwed up.
However, as a lifelong practitioner of martial arts, strategy, and philosophy, let me explain the difference between what you believe you witnessed and what actually happened.
Donald Trump has been under constant political persecution since the beginning of his first term. Over time, he has learned to be patient and calculated.
Tonight, Zelenskyy was invited to the Oval Office. However, both Trump and JD Vance knew exactly what Zelenskyy was going to do—he would use this opportunity, in front of the American people, to make a power play. Both Trump and Vance anticipated this.
When Zelenskyy began appealing to the emotions of the American people, JD Vance stepped in, accusing him of disrespecting Donald Trump. This was brilliant strategy. It’s important to understand that Zelenskyy is trying to gain access to NATO.
Trump knew this but could not allow it to happen. If Ukraine joins NATO, the U.S. would be bound by NATO’s collective defense agreement—an attack on one is an attack on all.
Now consider the larger implications: Ukraine and Russia despise each other. If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, any future skirmish between them would obligate the U.S. to enter into direct conflict with Russia. This would mean World War III. And if that happened, China would have to choose a side—they would almost certainly align with Russia.
So what you witnessed tonight was a setup. Trump and JD Vance knew that the only way to achieve peace was to strategically align, at least on the surface, with Russia. Why? Because Russia would never sign a peace treaty if Ukraine were admitted into NATO.
This is why Trump dismantled Zelenskyy’s argument. And when Zelenskyy, seeing his play failing, tried to backtrack and offer a treaty, Trump refused.
Zelenskyy’s real intent was clear—he would not agree to peace unless security guarantees were in place. But what was he actually saying? That NATO must accept Ukraine. However, Russia would never agree to peace, knowing that NATO, their historical adversary, would surround them.
Zelenskyy, Putin, and Trump all knew this. Zelenskyy, thinking he had Democratic support, believed he could make this bold move on live television. But Trump and Vance saw right through it and outmaneuvered him.
They knew that, in the short term, Democrats and the media would try to use this moment against them. But they also knew they had two years before midterms to prove their strategy was the right one. So they held their ground—brilliantly so.
Now, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms. But here’s the genius part—Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the U.S. into war.
By negotiating a mineral deal, Trump ensures that Americans will be involved in Ukraine’s mining industry. This prevents Russia from launching an invasion, because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives—something that would force the U.S. to respond.
Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In the end, Zelenskyy will have no choice but to concede, because without U.S. support, Ukraine cannot win a prolonged war against Russia. And once U.S. companies have mining operations in Ukraine, Putin will be unable to attack without triggering massive international consequences.
Don’t underestimate Donald Trump. In this game of chess, he’s 10 moves ahead of everyone.
All reactions:
33

Zelenskyy did NOT make a power play, so what follows thereafter is bullshit. He was ambushed. Trump and Vance wanted to put him in his box. Zelenskyy merely reacted and corrected Vance and Trump on what they had said. The disagreement on facts then led to Zelenskyy getting a very public telling off, for not being grateful enough (despite constantly thanking the West for their financial and military help).

 

[moehat]

I really don’t think that Trump and Vance think anything through in that sort of detail. And a lot of the minerals are in the territory that Russia has invaded. One of them is skiing and I assume the other is playing golf on a day when other western leaders are trying to mitigate the damage they have caused.

 

[Len Madeiros]

In the end the only people that are going decide what happens with Ukraine are Trump & Putin.
Europe & UK have ran down their military capabilities too far to have much say at the big boy table.
If USA walks then Putin will get even more of Ukraine.

I totally agree with this. This is politics, however much the diplomacy stinks. The US will also ensure that Ukraine does not join NATO. The huge issue for Europe is can they persuade Trump to stay in NATO.

 

[pawras]

I totally agree with this. This is politics, however much the diplomacy stinks. The US will also ensure that Ukraine does not join NATO. The huge issue for Europe is can they persuade Trump to stay in NATO.

Then as Trump has said they'll have to up their military spending to the levels they're supposed to re the NATO agreement.

That will mean cuts in spending elsewhere , I'd have zero qualms about the cuts I'd make and where but it's not my choice so it doesn't matter. Anyone who thinks further tax rises would fly with the UK public I'd say you're not in touch with reality.

 

[Len Madeiros]

Then as Trump has said they'll have to up their military spending to the levels they're supposed to re the NATO agreement.

That will mean cuts in spending elsewhere , I'd have zero qualms about the cuts I'd make and where but it's not my choice so it doesn't matter. Anyone who thinks further tax rises would fly with the UK public I'd say you're not in touch with reality.

Again, in agreement. UK politics again precludes tax rises, especially as a manifesto commitment has already been made. Most voters are not connected to foreign policy, and only observe if they are better off or not.

 

[Desert Orchid]

But as long as everyone’s wearing a suit it’s all fine. Except Musk - he doesn’t need to.

Yes, when I saw that 'cabinet' meeting the other day I did say to Mrs O, "Look at that clown Musk. He's wearing a stupid-looking (most are) baseball cap indoors at a White House cabinet meeting. What a f@nny."

(Her reply - that's an insult to f@nnies everywhere...)

 

[trudij]

She’s not wrong
I don’t know about over there, but given that most men are brought up to remove a hat when they go inside as a mark of respect, I’m just chalking it up to yet another double standard.
I found the whole thing very uncomfortable.

 

[walsworth]

I have always been a firm believer that the formation of a federal Europe with it's resources and technical knowledge would be capable of standing up to any threat. That is the main reason that I did not want bullshit Brexit to happen.

Unfortunately allowing some of the former Soviet states to join as separate countries was not a good idea as they only seemed to take advantages not contribute to the common good.

R

 

[pawras]

I have always been a firm believer that the formation of a federal Europe with it's resources and technical knowledge would be capable of standing up to any threat. That is the main reason that I did not want bullshit Brexit to happen.

Unfortunately allowing some of the former Soviet states to join as separate countries was not a good idea as they only seemed to take advantages not contribute to the common good.

R

Personally I don't believe a federal superstate could face a real military threat due to all the competing interests arguing what action to take. But doesnt matter that some embrace foreign rule cos they thankfully LOST

 

[walsworth]

Who is talking about foreign rule? I'm not.

As Dylan wrote many years ago:

Come writers and critics
Who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide
The chance won't come again
And don't speak too soon
For the wheel's still in spin
And there's no tellin' who
That it's namin'
For the loser now
Will be later to win
For the times they are a-changin'

 

[pawras]

You are when you advocate being part of the EU

Those who want their usual teary circle jerk on Brexit I think it would be better done in a different thread.

 

[walsworth]

I will continue to post where and when I like without asking your permission.

 

[Desert Orchid]

Who is talking about foreign rule? I'm not.

As Dylan wrote many years ago:

Yon Welsh guy was one hell of a poet...

 

[archie]

I think that the comments about Zelensky/Trump by the leader of Reform UK tell you all you need to know about the lies behind the disaster that is Brexit. Couldn't get a browner tongue by using Cherry Blossom.

 

[pawras]

Blub Blub circle jerk of old trots that can't hack it that people don't want to be ruled from Europe

 

[LUKE]

Irish delegation heading to Washington next week for St Patrick's Day celebrations.First thing to note they have been told to arrive on the 12th of March instead of the 17th.I think Trump will absolutely humiliate them -by lecturing them on Foreign Policy and Corporation Tax.

 

[Len Madeiros]

Blub Blub circle jerk of old trots that can't hack it that people don't want to be ruled from Europe

Ruled by Europe, my arse.

No EU Commissioner told us to stop fighting wars in our own country, or even abroad. Or imposing domestic policies. But I suppose if you talking immigration - that’s a different debate.

There was no rule from the EU. Unless you wanted to see it.

 

[Desert Orchid]

Irish delegation heading to Washington next week for St Patrick's Day celebrations.First thing to note they have been told to arrive on the 12th of March instead of the 17th.I think Trump will absolutely humiliate them -by lecturing them on Foreign Policy and Corporation Tax.

It looks like Glasgow will have its first St Patrick's Day celebration this year.

So many cities with historical links to Ireland have had celebrations down the years but the tiny minds in charge of Glasgow have resisted.

Still, we did manage to self fund a memorial to An Gorta Mor in the east end just outside the church Tommy Burns frequented.

 

[LUKE]

It looks like Glasgow will have its first St Patrick's Day celebration this year.

So many cities with historical links to Ireland have had celebrations down the years but the tiny minds in charge of Glasgow have resisted.

Still, we did manage to self fund a memorial to An Gorta Mor in the east end just outside the church Tommy Burns frequented.

I cannot believe there has never been a St.Patricks Day parade in Glasgow.

 

[pawras]

Ruled by Europe, my arse.

No EU Commissioner told us to stop fighting wars in our own country, or even abroad. Or imposing domestic policies. But I suppose if you talking immigration - that’s a different debate.

There was no rule from the EU. Unless you wanted to see it.

Well if you look at just the new areas now covered by qualified majority voting in the Lisbon Treaty i.e no veto, you will see that member states can try and horse trade in the background but ultimately they are subject to a majority vote. Which means it doesn't matter if their whole population is against a piece of legislation covered by qmv they have to abide by it ergo ruled by Europe.
However as of 31/12/23 EU law no longer has supremacy over UK law aka Brexit.

Voting in the Council of the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Desert Orchid]

I cannot believe there has never been a St.Patricks Day parade in Glasgow.

To the best of my knowledge, Luke, I should maybe have said.

I know applications were made down the years and persistently refused by the City Council, the same CC that has never refused a certain hate march in the middle of summer...

 

[Len Madeiros]

Well if you look at just the new areas now covered by qualified majority voting in the Lisbon Treaty i.e no veto, you will see that member states can try and horse trade in the background but ultimately they are subject to a majority vote. Which means it doesn't matter if their whole population is against a piece of legislation covered by qmv they have to abide by it ergo ruled by Europe.
However as of 31/12/23 EU law no longer has supremacy over UK law aka Brexit.

Voting in the Council of the European Union - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And you know those "laws" are mainly just about regulating the Single Market, right? Nothing to do with who you want to go to war with; imposition of a political ideology; interference in our governance structure ie, the important stuff.

We have always been a sovereign country. We once chose to co-operate and collobarate on areas of trade with our largest trading partner. It really was no big deal.

 

[pawras]

And you know those "laws" are mainly just about regulating the Single Market, right? Nothing to do with who you want to go to war with; imposition of a political ideology; interference in our governance structure ie, the important stuff.

We have always been a sovereign country. We once chose to co-operate and collobarate on areas of trade with our largest trading partner. It really was no big deal.

So now I've shown members of the EU are ruled by the EU re all areas covered by QMV, it's "no big deal"..........
Looking at the expansion of qmv from the Nice treaty to the Lisbon treaty they are not about 'regulating the single market' they are about establishment of a federal superstate so don't try and gloss it over with nonsense statements.
Government legislation tends to be written on the basis of the ideology of that government and are therefore imposing that ideology on those subject to those laws.
If a foreign parliament has supremacy over your own then you are not 'choosing to cooperate' as you are not a sovereign country simple as that.

 

[Len Madeiros]

So now I've shown members of the EU are ruled by the EU re all areas covered by QMV, it's "no big deal"..........
Looking at the expansion of qmv from the Nice treaty to the Lisbon treaty they are not about 'regulating the single market' they are about establishment of a federal superstate so don't try and gloss it over with nonsense statements.
Government legislation tends to be written on the basis of the ideology of that government and are therefore imposing that ideology on those subject to those laws.
If a foreign parliament has supremacy over your own then you are not a sovereign country simple as that.

Well, if the EU did have supremacy over the UK - in law, as you state - you'll perhaps explain to me, how the UK engaged in a civil war until 1997, and how it went to war in The Falklands, Afghanistan and Iraq, without the explicit say so of the EU. But I'm sure you have further evidence to share that a "federal superstate" is being created, and you can provide examples of its potential reach.

We always were a sovereign state. You'll note that we didn't go out on a limb, once we found our "liberation" - we didn't bring back feet and inches, for instance. And we are still following EU regs just to trade with them, hence the huge rollover of EU law into UK legislation, pre-2021. Do you still feel enslaved by a foreign power, now that you can't remove a plastic top off a bottle?