Dubai World Cup night

mrussell said:
Well, do you think Paco Boy can breathe such rarified air and in such company?
Still, if Timeform say so, it must be correct - so far.
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On his Foret win - just about . He beat a very good field very easily and was of course a close third to Goldikova in the Moulin
 
On what piece of form is Soldier of Fortune rated 130?

Also, Conduit a 130 animal?!

I think Gladatorius may well justify that lofty rating later on in the season, but I think it was too much of a funny race to give him that high a mark. Does this mean Presvis is on 125 or something close to that? Similar to Gladatorius, he may well be that good (i think he has the potential) but to say he has already shown the ability to win a race like the Eclipse or Juddmonte is crazy.
 
Hamm said:
On what piece of form is Soldier of Fortune rated 130?
Does this mean Presvis is on 125 or something close to that? Similar to Gladatorius, he may well be that good (i think he has the potential) but to say he has already shown the ability to win a race like the Eclipse or Juddmonte is crazy.
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I honestly think he has done, I can't overstate how much of a good race the Duty Free was, I don't know whether people don't see the racing at Nad Al Sheba as particularly prestigious or merely a starter before the domestic flat season kicks off, but that field will be one of the best assembled all season, no question. Granted Nad Al Sheba handicaps don't tend to be full of unexposed types, but he absolutely hacked up off 112 on his penultimate start beating a horse who looked for all the world as though he'd nicked it up the straight, I think he is quite easily at least a mid 120's horse.
 
jairducochetfan said:
I honestly think he has done, I can't overstate how much of a good race the Duty Free was, I don't know whether people don't see the racing at Nad Al Sheba as particularly prestigious or merely a starter before the domestic flat season kicks off, but that field will be one of the best assembled all season, no question. Granted Nad Al Sheba handicaps don't tend to be full of unexposed types, but he absolutely hacked up off 112 on his penultimate start beating a horse who looked for all the world as though he'd nicked it up the straight, I think he is quite easily at least a mid 120's horse.
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Like Hamm said, he might well be a 132 horse, but he is not yet. His form prior to Dubai was distinctly average (relative to his new rating) and while I (like you) do not think he had an "easy lead" last time, there is not doubt many of the principles ran below form.
 
I was referring to Presvis rather than Gladiatorus here, I think Presvis has done enough to suggest he could be very competitive in a race such as the Juddmonte on form he has achieved already. I'd have given him a mark of 120+ before the Duty Free which indicated he still had it to prove at Group One level but I'd have him at about 125/126 for Saturdays performance which would put him right in the mix for any domestic 10f Group One.
 
So, Alexandros is suddenly a 122 animal, suddenly showing form 7/8 pounds in excess of before, and 15 runs doesn't allow for an unexposed argument. I think it was Alexandros best run, but I don't think you can put him up by that much.
 
Yeah I see no reason not to rate Alexandros in the low 120's, he's clearly thrived in Dubai and whether or not he can translate that form back to Europe, he deserves a mark in that region based on his efforts at Nad Al Sheba. I think he's only had to improve 4 pounds or so from his penultimate run to grab third in the Duty Free, its possible a mark of 121/122 is the maximum he can run to given how he appeared suited by the strong gallop.
 
Galileo said:
Current horses in training...

Timeform Global Rankings - Top Ten
1 Gladiatorus 132
2= Well Armed 131
2= Youmzain 131
4= Conduit 130
4= Soldier of Fortune 130
6= Goldikova 129
6= Paco Boy 129
6= Septimus 129
6= Weekend Hussler 129
10= It's Gino 128
10= Yeats 128
10= Zenyatta 128
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If that was a 12f race I'd back Yeats to make all.
 
Hamm said:
Does this mean Presvis is on 125 or something close to that? Similar to Gladatorius, he may well be that good (i think he has the potential) but to say he has already shown the ability to win a race like the Eclipse or Juddmonte is crazy.
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In an average year I don`t see it as crazy at all. Would Mount Nelson and Phoenix Tower be formidable opponents?

On the subject of Ratings, I think people spend so much time looking at the RPR`s and International Classifications that they tend to think Timeform`s are too high. I take the opposite view and reckon in general the IC and RPR`s are too low. It would have taken an Hellisio or a Pentre Celebre to have lowered Zarkava`a colours last year given her sex allowance. Rating her in the high 120s like the RP did was very conservative.
 
Phoenix Tower was seriously let down by his jockey last season - Durcan did not shine in the Eclipse or International- which is probably why Frankie was to ride the horse in the Champion
 
trackside528 said:
Would any of the first three be up to winning a Group 2 in England? I doubt it.
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I'd back Gladiatorus to win a Group One in Europe all day long. He's absolutely murdered three races there and in scintilating times and sectional times.

He's 4/1 on Betfair for the Lockinge which is poor given the question marks over him showing up for it but if it was with a run, 4/1 would be amazing value.

Nice to see we're back discussing decemt racing again, not that thing for Countryside Alliance members and slow horses they have in the Winter. :p I would have loved to contributed more to this thread as the World Cup (after timing alert) was my best day's gambling I've ever had but I was at the meeting and internet is heavily censored in the UAE. I was just gutted Snaafy didn't run better, with the multiples I'd had, if he'd won I'd be talking to you from my own space station sponsored by Ladbrokes.
 
Looking back through the thread, I was actually referring to the first three home in the Sheema, Gamla Stan.

I can't wait to see Gladiatorus during the summer though; as you say, could be an absolute monster.
 
trackside528 said:
Looking back through the thread, I was actually referring to the first three home in the Sheema, Gamla Stan.

I can't wait to see Gladiatorus during the summer though; as you say, could be an absolute monster.
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Ah sorry, my bad. Was flicking through pretty quickly trying to catch up!

I just wonder whether Eastern Anthem won with a bit more in hand that it looked as the pace can't have suited and he was flying at the end. Be interesting to see how he progresses.

Anyone think Bin Shafya could be a potential replacement for Bin Surrour for Godolphin in the coming years? He's worked nothing short of miracles with some of his string this Winter.
 
Have to be wary of these miracle workers though - if they were looking at it like that you'd want to have Jerry Barton back in the US working with the likes of Gayego and Two Step Salsa.
 
... and how they work under the care of Saeed bin Suroor.
Think the key to this successful story is only Trainer Mubarak bin Shafya,
and his knowledge about horses from the endurance scene.
For me Sheik Mo should pick him for his european campain ...
 
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