First Season Sires.

a lot of his progeny out early so nice to see a winner for him.
Thumbs up too to Brendan Duke who got the first one on the board Sunday.
Art quizzed him about his two year olds at Leopardstown Feb weekend but he stayed quiet about that one!
Nice fellow all the same.
 
Thank you, Nathan.

William Hill odds:

KINGMAN 2/1
NO NAY NEVER 10/3
AUSTRALIA 9/2
SLADE POWER 13/2
ALHEBAYEB 12
TORONADO 14
CHARM SPIRIT 14
WAR COMMAND 14
BUNGLE INTHEJUNGLE 16
MORPHEUS 25
GALE FORCE TEN 25
SEA THE MOON 33
 
Had an interesting chat with a man in the business at Cork Races yesterday.
For what it is worth he says
1 Alhebayeb has the most foals so should get the most winners
2 Kingman may be the best long term but stock may be slow coming to hand.
3 No Nay Never was slow covering his first season so may not have enough runners but has nice sorts and is Coolmore's best hope.
4 War Command yearlings looked more like stores to him than flat types
5 Gale Force Ten did not get quality mares but shuld be a better sire than breeders think.
6 Overall a poor crop of first season sires.
7 Has been wrong before so advice to be taken accordingly.
 
Interesting comments Edgt. If 1 were true then the quality of the sire wouldn't matter. As regards 2 I'm sure 2 years ago Frankel was in a similar position with the best mates. I can't argue with 6 and 7, but who would have picked out some of the FSS's of previous years? I have said I fancy Toronado as he was a very good 2yo, had a good number of foals and has been moved from the National stud. Now I might be wrong on this but I take that as the owners ( Al Shaqab) liking the foals they'd seen and thinking he'd earn more at another stud. Having said that I'm surprised how few Toronados Hannon has. I like the 2yo king to have some of your foals. Same maternal line as Casamento and Vaguely Noble: why not a top FSS.
 
He is a sire that went completely under my radar but sales reports are good and the right people have them.
Sons of High Chaparral have not done particularly well at stud yet commercially speaking ( a small trainer I spoke to Sat would not take a present of a So You Think, his loss maybe !) .Must say I loved all three as racehorses , especially their desire to run and win.
Must say I was king of surprised myself at my breeder's comments with no mention of Australia even long term but there you go.
 
One of the pre-season favourites in the top First Season Sires, NO NAY NEVER, has his first runner today at Dundalk 6.00. The Irish Rover appears to be the second choice of the stable (A.P.O’Brien) with the Scat Daddy sired Sergei Prokofiev heading the market.
 
I took less than 16/1. I should guess that all the clever money was on and no bets at the track which is why it drifted like a barge.
 
Two first season sire winners yesterday:

At Pontefract Carey Street became BUNGLE INTHEJUNGLE's third success as a sire and at Windsor Gypsy Spirit provided GREGORIAN with his first.
 
From across the pond:

5 so far each with one winner


Cajun Breeze - Cajun Firecracker

Abstraction - Hustle Up

Mucho Macho Man - Mucho Amor

Capo Bastone - Hargus

Uncaptured - Bye Bye J
 
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As someone who has never followed this sort of thing if I could just fire a couple of questions to help me get a bit of understanding of it.

The best First season sire, will that be judged on total prize money of their offspring this season ?

Does it include the full flat season or are there cut off dates ?

Is this judged on a world wide basis i.e if a sire is having winners in Australia, Meydan, Jebel Ali, Ireland,France and the States do they all count ?

And as a general question what is this sort of thing worth to the owners or the stud ? I've never known that much about the breeding side of things other than there is an astronomical amount of money involved. I'd hear names mentioned like Saddlers wells would I take it he was the top sire of all time ? I hear bits and bobs about the money side of things and would I be right in thinking that to send a filly to be covered by say the likes of a Gallileo is around £250,000 a pop ? Is that right or have I got my wires crossed somewhere ? When a horse first goes to stud do I presume that either the owners or the stud set a price based on what he has achieved on the track and that price will alter depending on how his progeny do ? I obviously understand that horses like Classic winners and multiple group race winners would command the largest fees to start off with but then if their progeny don't do well would they reduce the price ? Does this also work the other way around ? How bad can a horse be and still go on for breeding purposes rather than be sold for meat. What would be the poorest level of a horse sent to stud ? Has there ever been a very ordinary horse who has done brilliantly at stud ? Has something like Jamaican Flight ever sired a Derby winner :lol:

I know that's quite a lot but if anyone could give me any sort of clues as to how the process all works it might help me take an interest.
 
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