Fiscal Compact Treaty

Your voting intention on the Treaty Referendum

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 66.7%

  • No

    Votes: 3 33.3%
  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
Hardly out of control??? Osborne has taken an economy that was recovering and brought you back into recession. And he has no unforeseen crisis to blame.

Can you let me know the answer to my previous post?
 
It has barely slipped into recession and all predictions are that it will quickly come out of that. It was by a tiny fraction if i recall rightly. What the economy has been doing (as BTB says) is just going nowhere much one way or another. That was at least expected. Hardly "out of control"

I dont much like Osbourne but this is hardly lamont or healey at the IMF.

The answer to previous question is billions. Something like eu 350 billion of greek debt written off i believe? And they still **** up?
 
Thanks to all who did partake in the poll.
The result fairly mirrors the recent Red C poll.

However, the figures from this poll and from the Red C poll differ sharply from my own poll conducted in local pubs, it must be said. It is safe to disclose now that that poll returned 72 "No"s from a sample size of 100 respondents. I've tried to square these results in my mind but cannot come to a clear conclusion as to the reason for such a wide disparity. The high slant towards "No" in the public house poll might be down to various factors such as the demographic ( working-class etc), a non-familiarity with the issue, a more trenchant/combatative attitude when one has a coupla beers in one's belly. But I don't know.
What I have found, though, is that there is a high degree of anger out there at the entire systemic and political structures of the EU at present amongst the "ordinary" people.

The current Betfair odds for a "Yes" are 1.12 to Lay, which would indicate a definite outcome. But the market has been know to be wrong before (David Norris for President springs to mind). :whistle:

Thanks again for your participation.
 
To Clive,
Re: Greece .................
I'm not certain whether your position is informed by a complete misunderstanding of the causality of the current situation ................... or whether you're knowningly peddling a discredited Merkel/Sarkozy line of disinformation.

Whichever, you surely do not believe that the debt repayment being demanded fro Greece is a debt that was incurred by the "ordinary" Greek people themselves, ................. those same Greek people who are being forced to pay back German banks to the point of being driven to soup kitchens and suicide. To portray the Greek people as lazy indolents sitting around all day drinking ouzo is a little but disingenuous.

The dirty little secret in all of this sorry mess is that it is German banks which are being bailed out by the enforced sacrifices of the peoples of Greece, Portugal, Ireland etc. These countries are being "bailed out" with 5% loans fron the ECB solely that they can then pay this money back to German banks. This is the socialisation of bank debt -- the transference of private debt to public/sovereign debt. The whole thing is obscene and the ordinary people are being treated as chumps by the banking elites.
 
Thats bollocks frankly. To blame germany for greeces problems is complete nonsense. The greeks benefited from the value of the euro but did not come anywhere near complying fiscally. In fact they acted fraudulently. The greeks themselves benifited hugely from this by bloating a public sector by an astonishing extent and frankly barely bothering to pay their own taxes.

I would check the facts first and the best account ive read of this is micheal lewis,s boomerang
 
50 per cent of greek debt was writen off by the banks. The greek people are only having to "pay back" half of their borrowings. In fact loans are simply being rolled over so there is no immediate payback anyway

I think a few people wouldnt mind seeing their credit cards slashed by 50 per cent wouldnt they?

Very hard doNe by my arse
 
Thanks to all who did partake in the poll.
The result fairly mirrors the recent Red C poll.

However, the figures from this poll and from the Red C poll differ sharply from my own poll conducted in local pubs, it must be said. It is safe to disclose now that that poll returned 72 "No"s from a sample size of 100 respondents. I've tried to square these results in my mind but cannot come to a clear conclusion as to the reason for such a wide disparity. The high slant towards "No" in the public house poll might be down to various factors such as the demographic ( working-class etc), a non-familiarity with the issue, a more trenchant/combatative attitude when one has a coupla beers in one's belly. But I don't know.
What I have found, though, is that there is a high degree of anger out there at the entire systemic and political structures of the EU at present amongst the "ordinary" people.

The current Betfair odds for a "Yes" are 1.12 to Lay, which would indicate a definite outcome. But the market has been know to be wrong before (David Norris for President springs to mind).

Thanks again for your participation.
 
clivex said:
The greeks benefited from the value of the euro but did not come anywhere near complying fiscally.
Click to expand...

The Germans benefitted much more from the euro. German export trade (particularly the luxury goods sector) boomed thanks to the euro. All those shiny Mercs and Beamers could sell in the U.S. and Far East at a lower ticket than if they were denominated in Deutchmarks.
 
So would any country that developed proper industries and srvices that could be exported
. Whats wrong with that? Somewhat different to simply borrowing and spunking it up the wall isnt it?
 
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clivex said:
The greek people are only having to "pay back" half of their borrowings.
Click to expand...

Y'see, this is more of it !
There are some of us who believe that the debt is not that of the "Greek people".
Unfortunately, the people of Greece ( and Ireland, Portugal, Spain et al) are being being lumbered with the gambling debts of national banks, bondholders and speculators. This socialisation of private debt is just plain wrong.
 
So when property prices accelerated unrealistically and some cashed in opportunistically, they were also being lumbered too were they?

When public sector workers were being paid fortunes in overmanned industries, they were victims too?
 
clivex said:
You think the deutchmark would be valued lower than the euro? You are joking surely?
Click to expand...
No !!!
It would carry a higher valuation than the euro, of course, which would make German export products higher in cost in the recipient countries.
I think you are confused, no ?
To clarify, I'm saying that
if 100 euro == 120 dollars
and if 100 Dm == 150 dollars
then, clearly, German exports would not be as attractive if denominated in Deutchmarks.
 
clivex said:
Whos debt is it then?
Click to expand...
Nobody's !
Let the gambling bondholders who made the bets take the losses. That's a principal tenet of capitalism.
The ordinary people of Greece or Ireland didn't make loans to property speculators and developers. German banks did that.
 
I deleted that... Tired today

Germany has benefited from the euro and many suggest They should be doing more to stabalise it. They were also mug enough to admit economies that simply couldnt keep in step and the banks were daft enough to lend, but the economies didnt have to join and they didnt have to abuse the system.

They bear responsibility but ultimately they are not the ones who are bankrupt because of chronic mismangement
 
Icebreaker, I think you are missing Clivex's point. This debacle proves English people are infinitely superior to wops and Paddies, who had got above their station. Now the lazy wops and thick Paddies will learn their place. It's a great hoot. There are years of mileage in this.
 
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Thats nonsense. The speculators in property didnt operate in a bubble did they? What about the people who benefited from buying and selling tonthe speculators? Make them responsible too? How?

You are not thinking this through
 
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