Five Live Programme on Racing

Ah, I get you now, Gamla, and I understand your point about paying for the quality of the racing, but, unless you're talking about the Derby, the vast sweeps of fun or non-serious punters wouldn't know a Listed from a Class 6 - it's just lots of brown horses running rather fast with riders in pretty colours. Now, that's not meant to sound condescending (although it does), but pretty much how it is down on the shop floor. And then there are the Annual Members, who sign up to a variety of courses for decades, and go regardless of the quality of the races, because it gets them off their bums and out for the day. That's the backbone of raceday attendances - the thousands of people who want something to do that doesn't involve watching re-runs of Diagnosis Murder or babysitting the grandchildren 7 days a week. They're more than happy with 7 or 8 races, happier with bigger fields (even if no-one's got past a rating of 59), and happiest if their Tote returns give them a profit of a tenner on the day.

What I think we've got to look at is racing being split, roughly, into these camps:

The (minority) pro or semi-pro punter who may not even bother attending a racecourse, preferring to send out spotters, gallops and paddock-watchers to report back. They're of little value to racecourses' income, but they're of immense value to bookies and exchanges.

The (majority) of non-pro racegoers, who break down into:

...Annual Members (particularly the very loyal, who usually spend little on course but do contribute to a major lump sum income to the course each year)

...Corporate hospitality - boxes, marquees, high-end spending

...Sponsors -outlay pretty similar to corporate hospitality, plus paying to sponsor races and buy advertising space around the course/in the card. An absolute necessity for courses.

...The day's gate take. Fluctuates due to weather conditions, special offers/events on the day, the day of the week or weekend, whether any nationally-recognised race is being held, etc.

There's no point pitching to the minority, so you must pitch to the majority, for whom racing is an escapist pastime, however often or little indulged. The more you can lard it with goodies - competitions to win luxury holidays, cars, cash, the more you can present it as a day out where customers can pick and choose from a wide variety of eating and drinking venues to suit their budgets - the more people will be inclined to think they've got value for money even if the racing itself is not up to much. If you charge people £15 a meeting and they see they're very well catered for, that they can enjoy a variety of non-racing events onsite as well (which must include coverage of other concurrent major sporting events such as the Ashes, World Cup footie, etc.), then I think courses will have cracked it.

Unrelated to how racing needs to market itself (which is what we're on about), Shadow's points about a badly-distributed fixtures list is very apt, as my own 3 y.o. can't find anything to run in at her low level in the south. There is an absolute dearth of sprints this season down here for the lowly-rated. And she was lowly-rated because of a crap 2 y.o. campaign inflicted on her by her previous connections - whether she ever really gets going as a 3 y.o. remains to be seen, but it's idiotically expensive to hold on to her until she gets to 4 or 5 (when her dam actually did her best), in the mere hope she can get a chance of a run. She's had one run at 3, and the course didn't suit at all, so we'll be bloody lucky to get two more races out of her this season, which is patently absurd. But that's the fault of race planners, nothing to do with the way in which we need to market racing to paying customers.
 
If we're talking about getting new fans into the sport, there needs to be an easy and obvious way for them to discover what the best races are and who the best horses/jockeys/trainers are.

The casual sports fan wants to know that they are watching the best of the sport, just like the only club football they'll watch will be Premier/Champions League, the only tennis they'll watch will be the Grand Slams, the only golf they'll watch will be the majors, and the only Athletics they'll watch will be at the Olympics and maybe the World Champs.

It's a portion of these who will go further and become interested in the wider sport, and will start wanting to attend in person.

As an aside: if you stopped 10 people on the street and asked them how far a furlong is, how many would know (how many would even know what you were on about?).
 
Oh, I think furlongs and stones (in weight) are a laugh! I'm not sure why we just don't re-measure everything out in metres and be done with it, and do the weights in kilos (with a translation into pounds for our American watchers). There are plenty of anachronisms, although there are still those in athletics, for example, we still talk about 'milers' and 'yards' - which should be incoherent to today's youngsters. I suppose it might mean some courses had to have rails brought in, out, shaken all about, and it would presumably annoy the ferk out of sectional time fans, but if one's to shake the bag of racing, it's one of many, many outdated modes to re-model for the reality of the 21st Century.

There are zillions of overhauls which could be made. Honest Tom's long-held desire to see jockey colours might be met by draw colours, for example, as per dog racing. That'd save owners a few quid, and ease the pressure on the valets! And if you knew Horse 6 was in Stall 7, you'd know that Stall 7 always wore bright pink, and you'd easily follow that. Trying to discern navy blue with white stars on the sleeves from black with white stars on the sleeves, especially when there's rain (or rain and mud) can be hopeless, particularly when both horses are plain bays with no fancy headwear!

Anything to make racing understandable, easy to read and pleasant to follow - that's my motto. But I'm not standing for Chair of the BHA, so it'll be confined to working with much of its 250-year heritage for a while yet, I'm afraid!

I think your point, Gareth, about casual sports fans is fine in that you're really mostly talking from a televised point of view, aren't you? We need terrestrial tv, in that case, to talk up who's the best in racing - not faff about with frilliest knickers or featheriest hat! Television's pundits could do a lot for attracting new fans if they didn't talk so much in riddles - and yet, on the occasion that they don't, they're castigated by those who like to feel elite because they've referred to a horse as 'being on the tubby side' rather than 'carrying a bit of condition'! Every step to popularise racing, to make it accessible, understandable, and something that truly embraces the idea of growth, is met with derision and dismay from far too many of its supporters. And it's not as if they're all old farts, either - there are plenty of younger people who'd hate to think that the general public could understand as much as they could!

There are some attempts by racecourses to help their novices along - most provide 'how to read a race card' pages in their race cards, and Epsom's Derby Day card is extremely helpful, with a full page devoted to 'How to Place A Bet', with full descrips of what's what, while Sandown's is even more anti-elitist, with two pages devoted to explaining racing and betting jargon. So for £2.50 or £3, many cards are like mini-tutorials in themselves - provided you buy 'em, and have time to read 'em!
 
If you charge people £15 a meeting and they see they're very well catered for, that they can enjoy a variety of non-racing events onsite as well (which must include coverage of other concurrent major sporting events such as the Ashes, World Cup footie, etc.), then I think courses will have cracked it.

I think that is an excellent point. Even when I go racing, I'd love to find out what is going on in other sports. Logistically, it can be difficult to do if you go to a football match or golf event. But with racing, it is quite simple and easy to do. The racetrack can be quite a decent place to watch football matches. It's just like a pub, but you get live sport fly by every half an hour:)! While Im on it, id also make sure that viewing facilities for the racing itself are adequate. If there isnt at least one giant screen (in working order), its just not good enough..
 
While Im on it, id also make sure that viewing facilities for the racing itself are adequate. If there isnt at least one giant screen (in working order), its just not good enough..

Any racecourse that makes you wonder if you'd have had a better view at home has surely failed.
 
Any racecourse that makes you wonder if you'd have had a better view at home has surely failed.

I remember at Ascot on the Saturday and pretty much after every race, people were asking me who won, even when looking at the big screen. It can be hard for people to know what horses had won. You could hear a big roar among the crowd when the top 3 was displayed on the big screen as most people only then realised what horses were at the business end of the race..

Is there any way to fix this? Can you imagine being at a football match and at the end of the match asking what the result is?:)
 
I remember at Ascot on the Saturday and pretty much after every race, people were asking me who won, even when looking at the big screen. It can be hard for people to know what horses had won. You could hear a big roar among the crowd when the top 3 was displayed on the big screen as most people only then realised what horses were at the business end of the race..

Is there any way to fix this? Can you imagine being at a football match and at the end of the match asking what the result is?:)

The only way to improve it is to get higher viewing postions for everyone

Out of all the courses I have been to..not many..Pontefract affords the very best view of the races

Doncaster..you seem very far away from the action for instance

If you go to a football match and stand so that your eye level is just above the pitch level it is very difficult to get a good idea of what is actually going on..but take 20 steps up the stands and the depth of the pitch is revealed and you get a more 3D view of the game

Maybe its time to change how a course is laid out..not easy
 
Viewing lines are one thing the annoys me, and I honestly don't think that racing has got a clue just how much of a turn off it is.

It's bad enough (though largely unavoidable of course) that in terms of what most people would call 'action' only occurs for a few minutes every half hour. However, there's enough going on, on the periphary to compensate for this. The big problem of course is that so much of this action takes place at long distance and as a viewing spectacle I can't think there are many sports that are worse.

Viewing lines in racing are something that courses expect you to pay for (which is the same in any sport) but as Ascot so ignorantly demonstrated, they almost seem to penalise people rather than enhance when they clearly discriminated in favour of the rich whilst digging out a subterranean trench for the poor. Goodwood's one of the worst I've encountered for viewing aparthied.

I actually think this is a real problem but you need to remember (to paraphrase Yossarian) 'they have flies in their eyes so they can't see it. They can't see the flies though, because they're there'!!! Or to put it another way, those people who might be in a position to do something about it, don't pay for their entry, and benefit from taking up priviledged positions anyway so have got little comprehension how bad some courses are, or little by way of incentive to acknowledge it. If they don't see it, they can't see it, so the problem doesn't exist, precisely because they don't see it.

I've taken people racing before and after they lose their virginity about 50% of them say "is that it" after the first race. I should say for balance that all of them enjoyed the day out however, but were disappointed that the viewing spectacle was short, limited and pretty kak.

Also for balance, special mention for Salisbury, Ludlow, Sandown and Rasen for viewing lines.

Boos for Goodwood (plebs area) Ascot (same) and Stratford (probably the worst viewing in racing). Newbury would be another i think is poor too
 
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Gareth, in all honesty, you will have a better view at home nowadays (barring, sorry to say, a number of the Irish courses, where there is often a paucity of well-placed camera cranes)! If you're in the stands at Plumpton or Fontwell, you've got a great all-round view of the course and even when the runners are furthest away, you can still see at least some bobbing heads. However, with or without binoculars, there's nothing like close-ups of the leaders, the head-ons that virtually no-one ever sees, and even some neat rear-view take-off shots in jumping, which, again, are not the norm. If you go stand by one of the jumps on the furthest point of a course, you won't often see the horses when they take a bend (it's compulsory at many courses to have bushes in the way - Ireland is a major offender there!), and so on. With an average of six cameramen all relaying different angles, you do get the best view of any race, Flat or NH, if you watch it on the big screen, or at home - where it's the same shots. There's no comparison to the old camerawork of even 30 years ago, when you mostly just got lateral tracking shots. Now, you've even got cameras tucked into rails, on the ground, in the ditches of the open ditches, overhead from balloons, on the top of a chase car, and even from a tracking motorbike! There's no way that viewing even from the best vantage point on a course can compare with viewing the filmed event - the latter is just so much superior in every way.
 
Viewing lines in racing are something that courses expect you to pay for (which is the same in any sport) but as Ascot so ignorantly demonstrated, they almost seem to penalise people rather than enhance when they clearly discriminated in favour of the rich whilst digging out a subterranean trench for the poor. Goodwood's one of the worst I've encountered for viewing aparthied.


Boos for Goodwood (plebs area) Ascot (same).....Newbury would be another i think is poor too

Now this is where I can't quite agree, Warbler. Ascot is one that I can't quite understand - yes, on the grass in front of the stands you can't see a lot but on which racecourse (other than Bangor or Cheltenham in their natural bowls) can you? Up on the steppings in the 'plebs' area at Ascot or Goodwood you have as good a view as you could possibly want, it just means hauling yer backside up a few steps! Newbury is pretty much the same but due to the nature of the beast (large, relatively flat and galloping course with a long straight) you can't see a lot of the track anyway, wherever you stand.

As I say Ascot in particular I have trouble with mainly since I work right in the middle of the 'plebs' area yet have a great view. Goodwood wouldn't be too dissimilar from the same point of view.
 
I think you've misunderstood my point Krizon; I was agreeing with mthbwu's point about big screens being necessary. Hence, I agree with your sentiment that:

With an average of six cameramen all relaying different angles, you do get the best view of any race, Flat or NH, if you watch it on the big screen, or at home - where it's the same shots.

Big screen when they're on the other side + live view at the business end = best of both worlds, and far superior to watching at home (although it helps if it's George Washington whooshing by in the Guineas, or Sea The Stars playing catch-me-if-you-can in the Derby).
 
Big screen when they're on the other side + live view at the business end = best of both worlds, and far superior to watching at home (although it helps if it's George Washington whooshing by in the Guineas, or Sea The Stars playing catch-me-if-you-can in the Derby).

I was at York when Dayjur won his Nunthorpe and I was stood about twenty yards from him when he whoooooshed by. Unbelievable speed, and it was a privilege to be there. The only thing that's come close since was being sat in what was the old United Rd stand when Ryan Giggs came flying by at full pelt in the early 90s with ball at feet.
 
Gareth, what I was responding to was your thought that if a racecourse's viewing made you think you'd see the races better at home, they'd failed. What I was saying to that is that of course you'll get a much more refined view of the races at home, due to the number of positions of cameras on course - unless you're in one of the chase vehicles, I can't see how you'd ever see those on course just using your eyeballs. As for the big screen - I don't really count that as watching the race 'on course' in the sense that it's still televised apparatus - not eyeball contact with the live race. However, sure, if you count the big screen as part of seeing the race on course - in fact, it's usually about 7/8ths of every race bar the finish in any detail - then you have the best of all worlds. But it's only got to have high winds blowing as it did at Plumpton this year, and the darn thing had to be lowered as it presented a safety hazard! Particularly after the wind sheared one of its mooring nuts - not a prob you generally get with your flat screen at home, I venture!
 
However, sure, if you count the big screen as part of seeing the race on course - in fact, it's usually about 7/8ths of every race bar the finish in any detail - then you have the best of all worlds.

I'm glad you agree :)
 
And I'm a very happy woman, knowing you're glad I agree...



... but I'm off to watch the wonderfully superior experience of racing on my telly now... !
 
Nice tall and steep stand, (if a bit knackered) set close to the track without yards of concourse in between (aka Newbury) or parade ring (aka Chepstow, Newcastle)
 
Well I could. I could see right down the track and even the cathedral right back in the city. I can only assume we're talking about the members area and Tatts? The members overlooks the finish line sure, but the view from the cheaper seats is was excellent (couldn't speak for the members area), and it's not so far set off the winning line that you can't work out whose come first either (unlike Goodwood). Mind you I had a particularly drastic ticket for that place, and there was a division that wouldn't have disgraced the Iron Curtain in place, with patrolling border guards, minefields, searchlights, alsatians, fortified barriers, barbed wire, lookout towers machine gun nests and various turnstile checkpoint charlies.

Plebs know your place. This is Goodwood
 
You might be able to glimpse things - is the cathedral - but not well enough to watch a race! The viewing is akin to that of the Newmarket courses - since you're at the end of a straight you can pretty much only see them coming towards you and not see much in terms of watching properly until about 2f out. That's the nature of the beast in the layout of such courses though and plenty of them are like that.
 
Havent read right thru this but if racing wants to draw more punters and attract those that may develop a true interest in the sport, courses should do the following

1. Cut down the times between races on the flat. 20 minutes even maybe. 35 and 40 minutes can seem along time between sprints say, if you are not boozing and socialising big time. However i suspect the gaps do help the bar takings....

2. Follow Kemptons lead with those two blokes who give a paddock commentary. Doesnt matter that people here will sneer at it and its not of great interest to me but it does help accessability and they do it nicely

3. More free days.
 
2. Follow Kemptons lead with those two blokes who give a paddock commentary. Doesnt matter that people here will sneer at it and its not of great interest to me but it does help accessability and they do it nicely

Things might be about to get messy...
 
I couldn't disagree more with your first two points. To address the first one, you are aware, I presume, that a jockey has to come in, speak to connections, weigh in, get changed into the colours for the next race, weigh out, pass saddle to trainer/his representative to go out and saddle said beast, speak to trainer to receive instructions for the next ride, go out into the paddock, chat to owners, get to post, answer the rollcall, load....all in the 15 minutes that would be available from pulling up from the previous race in the 20 minute gap between races that you say there should be? It would result in every race going off 10-15 minutes late as there wouldn't be the time for the saddling, talking to connections, etc.; it just isn't feasible. Besides which, there are very few 40 minute gaps except at the likes of Royal Ascot, the Derby, Glorious Goodwood et al. The norm is 30 or 35 minute gaps, depending of the nature of the track. For example, it takes a fair old time to make it to post for the longer races at places like Epsom, Goodwood, Salisbury that don't have circular tracks which is why those places have more 35 minute gaps than 30 minute gaps.

Your second suggestion is designed as a windup surely. Those cretins shouldn't be given any airtime at all. Period. They're horrific and they supply no pertinent information - unless of course you consider that it 'helps accessability and they do it nicely' when one of them tips the favourite every single time then sneers at his gimp mate for picking out one whose name he likes before the pair of them bicker about who has picked the most winners that evening. Pathetic.
 
1000% with you on the first point, Shadz - I've long wanted to point out that it's got nothing to do with cynical swipes at drinking time (which pays no compliment to punters), but everything to do with setting up races - as in getting the stalls trundled from one part of the track to the other, and the sheer physical effort of returning, say, 14 jockeys to their valets for a change of silks and any other accoutrements, a quick pee, and then out into the parade ring, and to-post time.

Don't know about the second part, as I tend to mute most commentators bar race callers these days, because of the fatuous level at which most of them operate.

As for free days - why? Lingfield's experiment with them drew no added numbers in at all. If you join a course as an Annual Member, and thus support the course and racing, you get to race at a very heavily discounted rate per meeting at the chosen course, plus receive around 20 or more free 'reciprocal' racedays at a variety of other courses, plus usually designated parking, and other freebies such as race cards (Brighton as one example) and/or access to the Os & Ts Bar (Lingfield Park).
 
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