Five Live Programme on Racing

I'd disagree with you about free days though Krizon. If I remember correctly there wasn't a lot of advertising about the free days Dennis subsidised, and weren't they midweek days in winter or something anyway so were always going to attract a limited audience?

Places like Kempton should offer free admission to every meeting. On the occasion earlier in the year that they let people in free there was actually a crowd! They attract a larger crowd on their £5 nights as well - even though they're not well advertised and they have to be booked in advance, as well as there being a new £5 parking fee (disgusting). There has to be some kind of attraction, otherwise places like Kempton will remain graveyards until the day they have to shut the gates for good as they are haemorraging so much money. Towcester is regularly rammed out on its free days; they really do work to attract a large crowd. Once they're in, the racecourse will make plenty on revenue from the amount of booze poured down necks and the extortionate food for sale (which still attracts large queues no matter how expensive).
 
True, and true again. But the idea was that they'd attract more than the usual gate - which is what they signally failed to do.

But why should courses which are being run okay bother offering free days to would-be's? I can imagine that even the offer of butt-nekkid girls offering free champagne and caviar all night long wouldn't boost Kempton by more than 5% - the place is, according to everyone I know, soulless. If people just don't like the racecourse, per se, then all the attempts in the world to lure them in ain't gonna work.

What - let's let our imaginations run wild and free for a moment - would actually attract people to come racing at Kempton? Well, regularly, that is - once isn't really going to make it viable.
 
Well good examples of why racing is so inward looking

Windsor used to have 25 min gap between races a few years back. Sod the owners and other nicities. Get the show on the road should be the priority

Whether some on here like the kempton guys or not is neither here nor there. opinion is irrelevant. Its whether it would work for wider public. I think it adds something for casual racegoer rather than anoraks and thats the point. They are harmless. Whats the problem?

Free days at Towcester seem to work dont they?
 
Last edited:
But it does work at Kempton Kri - as I posted in my post above yours! The night they let everyone in for nothing (the night they had the trial for the Kentucky Derby) was, by all accounts, packed. The nights they've had where it is a fiver a head (booked in advance) have had a far bigger than usual crowd.

So far as I am concerned, letting people in free at racecourses works to get far bigger crowds than normal. Of course it will - the whole nature of the human race is "ooohhhhh!! It's free, so I have to have it" and they'll go just BECAUSE it's free, since they'll think they're getting something for nothing. They'll still go to the bar and spend money there (which is where the racecourses make their revenue) as so far as they're concerned they've already got something for nothing as they didn't pay to get in.

Look at the Newbury arab racing days - they are absolutely ram-packed every year, with people queuing aroud the block to get in. Why? Because it's free to get in. Not only that, they get free goody bags with cheap stuff like branded baseball caps and branded t-shirts; they don't care what it is - and will probably never use it anyway - so long as it is FREE.

It's like the press room food you mention every now and then - have you ever seen plates full of it returned, only if there are only a handful of people in the room? Or the plates of pastries in the owners and trainers bars - do they come back full as there aren't many owners in today? No - because it is free, you can keep putting plateloads out and the more you put out, the more will be eaten. I see it day in, day out and it is very sad, really. Watching people stuffing their faces with sandwiches that they moan and bitch are still frozen, yet still go back three and four times to have more, then go back for a slice or two of cake - all food that they moan is 'crap' at this particular racecourse. Yet STILL they eat it because it is free; they cannot understand why on earth someone would actually want to bring their own lunch or go and buy food from elsewhere even if the free food isn't what they want. It's an unedifying sight.
 
Last edited:
Gareth Flynn said:
Big screen when they're on the other side + live view at the business end = best of both worlds, and far superior to watching at home (although it helps if it's George Washington whooshing by in the Guineas, or Sea The Stars playing catch-me-if-you-can in the Derby).
Click to expand...

Not sure I agree.

I'd say the way TV directors work these days you're probably right. We get far too many close-ups as the race nears a climax and the whole point of slo-mo replays appears lost on soime directors as they focus on one or two horses instead of on the bigger picture. I don't recall ever seeing US TV coverage panning in on one or two horses at the climax to a race. You can usually see the entire final half-furlong and all the horses are in shot.

At the racecourse you don't get much in the way of replays (Hamilton and Ayr are good at showing re-runs) and you're pretty much clueless about where your money went down until you get a chance to read the form the following day or week. I don't think that's good enough, especially when going racing is so extortionate.

The answer remains simple. Get rid of bookmakers (at least off-course to begin with) and let the industry find itself. There's no reason we can't have a racing industry to match Hong Kong's (including for its integrity).
 
What would you do with the hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of unemployed people left once you've got rid of bookmakers, DO? It's folly to believe that there is a 'simple' answer. Of course there isn't, especially not that one.
 
Shadow Leader said:
But it does work at Kempton Kri - as I posted in my post above yours! The night they let everyone in for nothing (the night they had the trial for the Kentucky Derby) was, by all accounts, packed. The nights they've had where it is a fiver a head (booked in advance) have had a far bigger than usual crowd.

So far as I am concerned, letting people in free at racecourses works to get far bigger crowds than normal. Of course it will - the whole nature of the human race is "ooohhhhh!! It's free, so I have to have it" and they'll go just BECAUSE it's free, since they'll think they're getting something for nothing. They'll still go to the bar and spend money there (which is where the racecourses make their revenue) as so far as they're concerned they've already got something for nothing as they didn't pay to get in.

Look at the Newbury arab racing days - they are absolutely ram-packed every year, with people queuing aroud the block to get in. Why? Because it's free to get in. Not only that, they get free goody bags with cheap stuff like branded baseball caps and branded t-shirts; they don't care what it is - and will probably never use it anyway - so long as it is FREE.

It's like the press room food you mention every now and then - have you ever seen plates full of it returned, only if there are only a handful of people in the room? Or the plates of pastries in the owners and trainers bars - do they come back full as there aren't many owners in today? No - because it is free, you can keep putting plateloads out and the more you put out, the more will be eaten. I see it day in, day out and it is very sad, really. Watching people stuffing their faces with sandwiches that they moan and bitch are still frozen, yet still go back three and four times to have more, then go back for a slice or two of cake - all food that they moan is 'crap' at this particular racecourse. Yet STILL they eat it because it is free; they cannot understand why on earth someone would actually want to bring their own lunch or go and buy food from elsewhere even if the free food isn't what they want. It's an unedifying sight.
Click to expand...

Free entry AND free food??? Where?? Haud me back!!!

Yup, I'm afraid I'd wire into the freebies with some gusto. On a one-off basis, why not? And I'd keep going back for more. That's the greedy b&stard in me. However, I do understand if it's there every day it wouldn't have the same impact and I'd prefer to bring my own after a while, as I tend to do at school staff lunches where everyone is supposed to make/bring/buy a dish for us all to share. (You know what happens. Some - like yours truly - will go out of their way to make something really nice while others will turn up with a packet of defrosted chipolatas from Farmfoods or two pizzas from Lidl.)
 
I just think it's unedifying to see people grab free stuff simply because it's free, whether they want it or not. It's even worse when you're talking about stuff like food that, cheeks bulging whilst they stuff more and more down their neck, they are bitching and moaning about being crap.

The human race becomes even more unpleasant when free stuff is about. They become grasping and nasty - a colleague often tells us about the fights he witnessed breaking out between two women over the last freebie box they could see at the arab racing meet last year. Neither woman knew what was in the box, they just knew that it was FREE and they wanted it. Turned out they were scrapping over a box of bloody raisins. Pathetic.
 
Shadow Leader said:
I just think it's unedifying to see people grab free stuff simply because it's free, whether they want it or not. It's even worse when you're talking about stuff like food that, cheeks bulging whilst they stuff more and more down their neck, they are bitching and moaning about being crap.
Click to expand...

This is where I disagree strongly (from my own angle).

I'd never complain about free food being crap!
 
Shadow Leader said:
So far as I am concerned, letting people in free at racecourses works to get far bigger crowds than normal. Of course it will - the whole nature of the human race is "ooohhhhh!! It's free, so I have to have it" and they'll go just BECAUSE it's free, since they'll think they're getting something for nothing. They'll still go to the bar and spend money there (which is where the racecourses make their revenue) as so far as they're concerned they've already got something for nothing as they didn't pay to get in.
Click to expand...

Agree 100% with that. We don't have a Towcester up here to compare too, but John Wade put on 3 point to points at his place this year, one was £20 per car, one was £5 each, under 16s free and one was totally free. I didn't go to the first one! At the 2nd we were sat with a lady who had brought 4 teenage girls, so she was quite happy to fork out money for them all to have burgers and drinks despite them being pretty steep. She said even though they all hunted with the Zetland, and went to the Zetland PC she wasn't happy about forking out 25 quid to go the p2p when it cost her a fiver for the Cleveland, especially as they got no discounts for being in the hunt already!! At the free one, The South Durham they didn't even have a burger van, just the ladies from the hunt doing pies, pork rolls etc, so they got all the profits. And they made a bomb there was always a queue, it is true, if you don't pay to get in you on't mind paying so much for food and drink and will buy more than normal. I must admit that I usually got in free being with runners, but we still always took a picnic!!
 
Clive - okay, let's see you get racing out in 20 minutes a crack, old bean. It's nothing to do with being inward-looking, it's everything to do with what Shadow has carefully explained to you. If you want to keep banging on in the face of reality, that's up to you, but you might as well ask tennis to stop arsing about with long sets - what's wrong with making it best of three, and that's it? The whole world can't be speeded up and up. Do you actually go racing? Have you ever tried to queue for your return from a bookie, go to the loo (assuming there aren't 15 blokes ahead of you), grab a quick look at the next race's nags in the paddock, in the space of 30 minutes? It's not dog racing!

I find PtPs exorbitantly overpriced @ £25 a car. There's just me! Why on earth would I want to lob out half a raceday's pay to see some ancient old ex-chasers and some distinctly slow nags with amateur riders, basically having their own private fun day out? Piddle-poor 'amenities' - one burger van (overpriced) serving tea and warm fizzy drinks (overpriced again), and by the time the multiple entries had decided which race they'd like to run in, down to three, four, and five per race! I was surprised not to find them panhandling for a visit to the Portaloos. Pshaw!
 
krizon said:
I find PtPs exorbitantly overpriced @ £25 a car. There's just me! Why on earth would I want to lob out half a raceday's pay to see some ancient old ex-chasers and some distinctly slow nags with amateur riders, basically having their own private fun day out? Piddle-poor 'amenities' - one burger van (overpriced) serving tea and warm fizzy drinks (overpriced again), and by the time the multiple entries had decided which race they'd like to run in, down to three, four, and five per race! I was surprised not to find them panhandling for a visit to the Portaloos. Pshaw!
Click to expand...

Hi Krizon, I think we've already done this one on another forum, but if your on your own probably the most you'll be charged is a tenner. The average round here per car is £20, that could be for 2 or 5 people, not bad value if theres a few of you. To be honest I much prefer it to rules, the last time I went "proper" racing was last summer, and im not bothered much the next time I do, but I can't wait for next Feb time (I know they start before xmas but not up here!!). I hate that you think of pointers as ancient ex-chasers, yeh they're not as fast as some but we (in Yorkshire especially) have some right up and coming young horses, and where do you think Paul Nicholls gets a lot of his bumper horses
 
The number of issues which i tend to agree with McCririck on you can count on one.........?

However, at the risk of sounding sexist, I'm inclined to agree with one of his sentiments about how to make racing more attractive.

GET WOMEN

I think there's an element that is that simple. For Gods sake, the alcohol drinks industry have used it!!!!

Where young and attractive women go, the male follows? Where they combine, they spend?

Racing is sexy


Now I realise this is crass to a lot of you (and I've got mixed opiions on it) but racing as a 'place to pull'...............I think its got potential. Why let the trendy pubs and night clubs take that lucrative market?
 
I must admit I laughed fairly hard at the "place to pull" bit, but I am interested in how you propose going about it?
 
I honestly don't think its difficult.

Women dress themselves up and go where? a pub crawl and a nightclub? why let shittey pubs take the money?
 
I'm desperately thinking of the wrong way to frame this, (and failing).

Girlies!!! (Kriz apart she's into something else which involves writing letters and taking money off the innocent, and Shadow Leader I'm exempting too because I think she's happier neck deep in horse manure and lecturing jockeys) do you not deep down enjoy dressing up? and feeling glamourous? and recieving attention? the second look may be?

Please tell?
 
I'd have to disagree with you about the PtPs too, Kri! As LE says, often if the car contains only one person, the cost is £10. I missed a trick at Dunthrop one time when the guy on the gate waved me on, saying, 'oh, you're riding today aren't you'. Like a nob, I said no, how much do I pay? All in a good cause though.

Point to points are very much not full of ancient slow old chasers either - maybe in the Opens, and the Novice Rider races (easy to pot hunt), but the Maidens, Restricted, Confined etc tend to field quite a few promising young horses. Point to pointing is an ideal educational ground for any young NH horse and in truth would probably provide a better education for a young horse than a novice hurdling campaign.

IS - I presume you're taking the piss?! As I'm sure that you know that most of these that come from Ireland (including Denman) come from the PtP scene?

Warbler - you're right; I rarely dress up for racing and even if I do I don't look a dog's dinner like a lot of women going racing nowadays. Why women insist on going racing in tiny dresses and strappy 4 inch heels I have no bloody idea. A lot of them think that making themselves go orange and wearing a strappy dress is attractive - why?! Myself and my colleagues were killing ourselves today watching two Amy Winehouse wannabes who thought they looked sexy in tiny dresses, 5 inch stilettos, plastic looking curly hair (especially in the case of the bottle blonde), make up that would have been at home in the Rocky Horror Show and orange skin. Honestly, if they'd have gotten too close to a flame they'd have melted, the pair of them.
 
Last edited:
Yes they do - LE's insinuation was as I read it that most of the Nicholls horses (or at least a large number) came from the Yorkshire pointing region.

Apologies to LE if I've read that wrong - but yes most people know where Nicholls horses come from.
 
Not that I've ever tried 'pulling one' (ie a woman) at a racecourse, but I don't necessarily associate women dressing up for a day's/evening's racing with wanting to be 'pulled'.

Am I missing something????
 
Sighs deeply... no, LE and SL, it's £25 for a CAR at South Godstone. I went once, got charged £25, asked if that was right because there was only me in it, and yes, that's right, one or 120 of you in it, Madam, it's £25. Hence, no repeat visits, thank you. Look it up if you don't believe me. And I ought to get in for bluddy free, the way we've obliged Tim McCarthy's owners over the years!

Anyone wishing to admire the transvestite majesty which is our Ladies Day at Brighton is urged to get their backsides down there next month - Thursday, 6 August. But any of you chaps hoping to pull one, sorry, you're out of luck. These guys are straights, not queeahs, most with understanding wifeys at home. As one - a magnificent 6' 4" well-toned blonde in a baby-blue tu-tu, and 3" bespoke brocade heels - said to me a couple of seasons back, while we enjoyed a chat about who designed his outfit and made his shoes (only £150 at mate's rates, half the price of the norm, as his friend makes them), "Some chaps like to play golf in their spare time, others like watching footie - we just like putting on nice dresses. Each to their own, really."
 
Didn't think I was insinuating anything of the sort IS , I know fine well Paul Nicholls doesn't get his horses from deepest darkest yorkshire :D

Cn I just point out that having looked up this years meeting at Godstone, yep they had a £30 car park, but they also had a £20 one and £10 for single occupants. Its on the internet, I have looked it up!

From Jumping for Fun discussion board:
hampshire
Intermediate
smallball.gif
Posts: 31
Date: May 6th

Printer Friendly​

Thanks steadaway. We are looking into what we can do for the future. We would like to avoid that situation as well. Would like to make the point that there was a £20 Car Park as well (and £10 single occupant) so you didnt have to pay £30, it is usually the picnickers who go into the £30 Car Park in the middle.
Click to expand...

And I must say, Im breaking my own rules here but next saturday i'm going a. On a hen do to the races, b. its to Newcastle, c. Its bloody ladies day and d. I'm wearing a dress, heels and possibly a hat. I hate it, im only going cos its family and I have to, I'm sincerely hoping I get Swine Flu at some point this week that will excuse me from going!!!:lol:
 
Back
Top