Frankel V Canford Cliffs

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A strong difference of opinion between two bookmakers who are unlikely to back down because of the other's pricing. This is how they price a match bet between the two the first time they meet this season.

Coral

1/2 Frankel
6/4 Canford Cliffs

Ladbrokes

8/11 Canford Cliffs
EVS Frankel

Who will win the first match between these two this season?
 
If Frankel was evens on the day at Goodwood I'd steam in. He'd need a good ride, but the WFA is in the 3yo's favour in the Sussex.
 
I'd have doubts whether Frankel will run well next time out unless he gets a very long break. Two hard races.
 
The nation’s bookies are divided in opinion as a war between Europe’s leading milers Canford Cliffs and Frankel becomes increasingly likely after their victories at Royal Ascot on Tuesday.

Canford Cliffs produced a dazzling display to lower the colours of Goldikova in the Queen Anne Stakes, while Frankel just managed to hold on and maintain his unbeaten record in the St James’s Palace Stakes on the same afternoon.

Ladbrokes have installed Canford Cliffs as the 8/11 favourite to defeat Frankel (evens) in a Sussex Stakes match bet, but rival firm Coral have Frankel at ½ and his opponent at 6/4 should the two meet at any point this season.

David Williams of Ladbrokes explained to Racingbase: "We had no hesitation in siding with Canford Cliffs. He was awesome in defeating Goldikova whereas Frankel didn't seem to have the breathtaking brilliance of his Guineas win."

However, Coral’s David Stevens was in disagreement and told us: "Frankel may not have taken the breath away as he did at Newmarket, and Canford Cliffs looked superb when lowering Goldikova's colours, but we would still favour the younger colt to come out on top if the pair meet, and let's hope we get the chance to find out, maybe in Goodwood's Qipco Sussex Stakes," said Coral's David Stevens.
 
With the strong hand of older horses in training this year there are going to some memorable clashes. I think Canford Cliffs would be too streetwise for Frankel but what a clash it would be.
 
Gearoid said:
A strong difference of opinion between two bookmakers who are unlikely to back down because of the other's pricing. This is how they price a match bet between the two the first time they meet this season.

Coral

1/2 Frankel
6/4 Canford Cliffs

Ladbrokes

8/11 Canford Cliffs
EVS Frankel

Who will win the first match between these two this season?
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If they stick with Queally..i'll be with CC at 6/4 please

The only way Frankel will beat CC is if he is ridden to conserve that massive energy he has..i don't think Queally is capable of delivering this..he seems to panic as he has demonstrated twice in a fortnight now..with Midday and Frankel..he got away with it with Frankel due to the horse being a freak of nature..with Midday he wasn't as fortunate

To me he isn't a big race jockey...a confident jockey knows that a horse in front going like the clappers is going to come back..particularly when its your own fookin pacesetter who is running 4f pace;)

With Midday he didn't have the confidence to wait again..he just hit fast gear as soon as he turned in.

Jamie Spencer used to get some right stick..the ride in the breeders cup for example..to me Queally is as bad as Jamie was when he was with AOB.

He just isn't cool enough..certainly not good enough for top G1's

If I suggested Queally for AOB job..i wonder what you Irish folk would say:)
 
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It actually would be quite a test of jockeyship as well as the ability of the horses. Not meaning to harp on today's ride, I've nothing against Queally, shit happens. You would imagine though there will be a fair distance between the two horses at some point in the race, plenty of scope for Queally to push too hard/not hard enough, and for Hughes to leave himself too much to do.

For me Canford Cliffs has less to prove and should be 4/7.
 
I'd agree that CC has less to prove than Frankel. It's one thing beating your own generation but there is much better opposition in the older division.
 
Cantoris said:
I'd agree that CC has less to prove than Frankel. It's one thing beating your own generation but there is much better opposition in the older division.
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I agree - if there's any doubt you should favour the older horse over the 3yo at this time of year, as you don't really know yet how good the 3yos are.
 
Melendez said:
I'd have doubts whether Frankel will run well next time out unless he gets a very long break. Two hard races.
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Will be very interesting to see how Cecil proceeds from here. Both himself and Queally were pretty adamant the horse was merely idling in front and Cecil actually commented that the horse getting 'wiser' would actually make his job easier.
 
BennyB said:
I agree - if there's any doubt you should favour the older horse over the 3yo at this time of year, as you don't really know yet how good the 3yos are.
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I'm strongly of the opinion that the older horses will win all of the all aged Group 1 race this season.
 
14 seconds for the last furlong isn't idling..its fookin knacked

i don't buy this idling stuff at all..he was tatored due to the ridiculous mid race move he made
 
EC1 said:
14 seconds for the last furlong isn't idling..its fookin knacked

i don't buy this idling stuff at all..he was tatored due to the ridiculous mid race move he made
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Looked like that alright. Zoffany made up so much ground it suggests the one in front was dying.
 
EC1 said:
14 seconds for the last furlong isn't idling..its fookin knacked

i don't buy this idling stuff at all..he was tatored due to the ridiculous mid race move he made
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Can you give us an idea how slow 14 secs for a final furlong is EC1? What about the overall time?
 
Gearoid said:
Can you give us an idea how slow 14 secs for a final furlong is EC1? What about the overall time?
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i haven't looked at the race yet..i cribbed that time from another board ;)..from the same source..i don't know how accurate these are ...but i get the idea they might have been quoted by Terry Norman on the radio

Ran the 3rd last Furlong 11.8 sec
Ran 2nd Last Furlong 12.5 Sec
Ran the Final Furlong in 14 sec

after allowing for standing start say ..13.5 for 1st furlong...the average time per the other 7 furlongs is 12.2 per furlong

the last furlong is stiffer than the average ..but 14 seconds is slow

i'll get the race off the freeview box at some point and do my own calcs at some point

if that 11.8 is right then its no wonder he were knacked
 
EC1 said:
I think Terry has quoted Pru's times by looks of it.

I'll check out Zoffanys last 3f splits by way of comparison
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Now that would be interesting. It was a real good run from Zoffany as he disappointed a bit FTO.
 
Gearoid said:
Now that would be interesting. It was a real good run from Zoffany as he disappointed a bit FTO.
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I knew that Sony Vegas software would come in handy..don't need a stopwatch now;)

Frankel
5f: 61.3
6f: 73.2
7f: 85.85
8f: 99.24

Zoffany
5f: 62.8
6f: 74.7
7f: 86.76
8f: 99.37
 
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Over the same going and same position on the track, EC1? No crosswind/rain for one and not for the other, or any of the external factors which might make for variables?
 
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