Frankel V Canford Cliffs

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krizon said:
Over the same going and same position on the track, EC1? No crosswind/rain for one and not for the other, or any of the external factors which might make for variables?
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yep..i got a magnifying glass out..in fact at one point i walked into the image and spoke to both jockeys;)
 
Ardross said:
If they sacked Queally and replaced him with Moore I would say Frankel .
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I hope Frankel is not going to be affected by two unecessarily tough races. Canford has had two easier races in that he is ridden and races to beat what's there and not to put on a masterclass. We most also remember the Hannon Hype has also got some Coolmore clout behind it.
 
I'm certain that Hannon/Hughes believe everything they say about the horse. Coolmore just made a very astute purchase.
 
On The Bridle said:
I hope Frankel is not going to be affected by two unecessarily tough races. Canford has had two easier races in that he is ridden and races to beat what's there and not to put on a masterclass. We most also remember the Hannon Hype has also got some Coolmore clout behind it.
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Canford Cliffs has won five Group one races in a row - where is the hype in that ? It is nothing compared to the So You think hype
 
EC1 - no, seriously - if you compare times x distance, don't you also have to figure in the weights the horses carried (if they're not identical), the going and the positions they held when you timed them (i.e. their draw) and also over identical courses? I'm only arrrsking as it would seem a pointless exercise (as if you'd engage in that!) if you were timing them over Goodwood and Epsom respectively (examples only). So all factors would have to be identical, would they not, to arrive at real comparative times? And did the jockeys tell you to 'virtually' bugger off?
 
I was there yesterday and with a very good view and it was very clear that Frankels stride shortened markedly in the last furlong and a half. To me he looked like he was treading water. In regards the form of the race he has beaten Excellebration by less than he did in the Greenham and the proximity of Neebras surely should be worrying. There would only be one winner between Canford and Frankel and it isn't going to be Frankel. I also think Canford looks like he wants a 1m 2f to me now.
 
Canford will carry all before him until the Breeders Cup and then the rematch with Goldikova will be one to savour. Can't see him being beaten over the mile by anything in Europe. As Kauto says, it will also take a good one to lower his mast over 1m2f!
 
Really looking forward to this. Given the excitement Goldikova v Canford Cliffs generated, this should be off the scale. I strongly expect Frankel to give Canford Cliffs a 2l+ hiding.
 
At the prices quoted at the beginning of the thread I'd back both of them.

If forced to make a choice I'd go for Frankel. And shoot Queally if he rode him like he did at Ascot again.
 
My feeling is Frankel is clearly the better of the 2 but after seeing Frankel in the paddock at Ascot, I think needs a break, he run like a horse suffering the effects of the hard race at Newmarket, he looked light in the paddock and the ride didnt help, if I were the owner I would run the Moulin and the Breeders Cup or only the new Queen Elizabeth at Ascot in mid October.
 
Canford has to go for the Sussex. SYT is on target supposedly for the Eclipse so that rules out Canford going for this race. I'm of the opinion that Hannon Jnr is using Coolmore speak when he says he may take up the 1m 2f route further down the line. Enticing potential breeders with a top class stallion over 8f and 10f is something they cannot refuse. I really can't have Frankel beating Canford in the Sussex, he's a major major lay in my book. Canford has the course form in the book, Frankel has had his goose well and truly cooked!
 
a clear no bet race for me..unless i knew that Frankel is going to be given a sensible ride..which is unlikely

anyone that crabs how far Frankel wins..needs to ask themsleves how far would Goldi or CC would win if asked to go for home at full pelt 4 furlongs out
 
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Goldi and CC behave like proper racehorses and obey their riders wishes. Frankel has problems settling and seems to have convinced Queally and Cecil that unless he gets his way, he may lose interest.
 
trefflich said:
Goldi and CC behave like proper racehorses and obey their riders wishes. Frankel has problems settling and seems to have convinced Queally and Cecil that unless he gets his way, he may lose interest.
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he needs a stronger rider..and also a rider that can judge pace..quealy fits neither bill imo

and i don't normally give much creedence to who rides what tbh..but his two rides this year on Frankel and the awful..just fookin awful.. ride he gave Midday tell me he isn't up to the job
 
I'd expect Canford to be a straightforward winner over a mile and if he wasn't favourite would be outstanding value. If Frankel were to settle over 10 furlongs I'd side with Frankel.
 
I honestly think the criticism of Queally is over the top-he has ridden at least 11 Group 1 winners since 2009.
I think some members of the Frankel fan club want a scapegoat if the horse isn't up to scratch.
 
LUKE said:
I honestly think the criticism of Queally is over the top-he has ridden at least 11 Group 1 winners since 2009.
I think some members of the Frankel fan club want a scapegoat if the horse isn't up to scratch.
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thats nonsense imo Luke

in the past i've been the least critical of jockeys on this forum..because i expect a certain level of ability..and generally most meet that level..so its never an issue to me

if you watch the SJP..there is no reason on earth for queally to make the move he did..Frankel was bowling along ..then..they do that close up side on view of Frankel about 4f out..and he's riding the fook out of him

do you honestly think that you ride races like that?..and if you do..why don't all races end up like that..ride them full out from 4f?

its not just Frankel either..his ride on Midday was actually worse

there is no way that i can sit by and watch..possibly one of the best horses we have seen..being ruined and not comment on it

are you happy that a horse like Frankel being ridden into the ground..what if they had done that with STS?..would you have said..oooh its just the STS fan club moaning

this is a foookin great horse..and we ain't going to see his best like this..i want to see great horses stamp their authority on the game..not ruined a little bit each run
 
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Bar the Bull said:
I was in Normandy.

I read on this forum earlier that Moore's ride on SYT was more forgiveable than Queally's on Frankel.

I think people forget that Moore lost, and Queally won.
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Queally only won because the horse has a one hell of a lot of abilty..if he had waited until they turned in before kicking he would have won by 6 plus..a rather more impressive result than what occured..and also a lot kinder to the horse

they'll bottom him soon riding him like that
 
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