Funniest Thing You've Read In Ages

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Perception is almost everything, isn't it.

Even though actions and sequences of events are above board, to a lot of people that isn't enough they have to seem to be above board.

Griffin, you say, and why shouldn't we believe you, that you asked Ardross to help, I feel the perception to some people on here that that event is unlikely.

Why would someone who is setting up a forum, invite someone who was bound to alienate likely future members. Even Ardross, in his deepest state of denial, could never think he was likely to be everybody's choice for Moderator of the Year.

Your rules and regulations were drawn from another forum, again we should accept that, but you can see what the perception was from the original post.

Griffin, you say, and why shouldn't we believe you, that several people suggested you set up an alternative forum, can we dare ask you to name them?

You say it is not your intention to steal members from Talking Horses but Ardross is merrily inviting people to join Ardfin by PM from Final Furlong. In fact your post on this thread could be perceived as a promotion of YOUR forum.

The perception that I have of the sequence of events, that is my perception and no-one else's, and which by definition could be, and probably is, totally wrong. As a new moderator you took exception to what appeared to be a fairly innocous remark (personal insult) and pulled a post/thread, you didn't get the expected support from the board owner or fellow moderators. You weren't happy, perhaps a recent ex-moderator noticed and took advantage of the opportunity and suggested either attemting to takeover TH by offering to buy Col out or failing that setting up a new site.

As you can probably tell, I do love a good conspiracy.

In my opinion you should have toughed it out, to resign at the first little skirmish does seem rather wimpish, and you have never come over as a wimp.

You say you are the world's most stubborn person, by the way I would contest that, I feel you will need to so in the upcoming months.
 
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Just for you Colin, a wooden spoon so you can stir things a bit more.

Like I said, people can make whatever assumptions suit their purpose, and you've made yours quite clear. I've no reason to lie.

I've explained why I did it, you have dismissed that, added 2 and 2 together and got 5. I don't care what you think, I've told you the reasons why in that private email to you, but you're chosing to twist my words to suit yourself in public.

And why on earth should I not defend myself and Ardross in this thread? We did not create it, we did not force it to run to three pages, I didn't even name my forum, you did that for me! I told Col I would not spam for members here, seems he should be gagging other members, not me :brows: Ardross may have PMd a few people on FF, I wouldn't know, but he certainly had Teds blessing to post about a competition we are having.

I realise Ardross had disagreements with members here, I've no idea over what though because that's none of my business. I asked him to help me because it became clear that we both had similar views on the way forums should be run. We're not trying to win a popularity contest, I want a happy forum with high standards of personal conduct amongst it's members so others don't feel intimidated. I knew Ardross felt the same way, so it made sense to ask him onboard.

I suggest people should keep their 'perceptions' to themselves. I have stated the facts in black and white. Anything that differs from those facts is just an attempt to ###### stir.
 
"I realise Ardross had disagreements with members here, I've no idea over what though because that's none of my business. I asked him to help me because it became clear that we both had similar views on the way forums should be run. We're not trying to win a popularity contest, I want a happy forum with high standards of personal conduct amongst it's members so others don't feel intimidated. I knew Ardross felt the same way, so it made sense to ask him onboard."

I find the above para very hard to swallow.
 
Griffin, I personally think your two posts speak volumes and certainly clarify a few things for me. Why don't we all draw a line under it, and I don't mean by locking this thread but just by looking forward not back.

You seem happy with what you have achieved by opening, running and paying for a new racing forum (with Ardross assisting), and I and others seem to think TH can move forward with or without some of the familiar faces that once were the regulars on here. It's a real shame, but it happens.

I have to admit, Tetley made me smile. I still haven't been able to work him out, but I hope that if people like him are now able to post regularly (and not just to highlight how many egos there are/were on here) then this will be a bonus in itself. I am sure that there are many other "lurkers" that may also decide to post now that some of the tension of the past has gone. I admit, I may have been responsible for some of it for which I am not proud, but I'm not stubborn, just a bit feisty at times. Not unlike SL! :)

TH has been my main forum home for a few years and I like the way it has gradually evolved and I hope by the time the National Hunt season arrives it will be positively buzzing again.

Best of luck with your new forum, Griffin.
 
I must admit that a person calling for "high standards of personal conduct amongst it's members" seems to have been the subject of the poor language filter a paragraph later did cause me to smile.

But leaving that aside;

Kathy, I'm afraid I don't share your optimism for the future based on the early evidence to date. The quality and frequency of contribution (imho) has undoubtedly deteriorated, and there seems little by way of light at the end of the tunnel. If pushed, I'd probably say a further draining is the more likely outcome at this stage, before any 'green shoots of recovery' appear. Above all else a forum needs quality rather than numerical membership to thrive, and when you look at the roll call of the fallen, it shouldn't be too difficult to put the two together by way of cause and effect.

I think some horrendous errors of misjudgement have been made, and provided Griffin is referring to what I believe she is? continue to do so under the current team. Personally I feel the forum's going through a malingering death, and will perish unless invigorating and stimulating contributions can be brought forward to fill the vacuum. As I said, I'm far from optimistic this will happen.

You'll be sad to learn that Ardross hasn't PM'd be on FF :D
 
unless invigorating and stimulating contributions can be brought forward to fill the vacuum.
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Thats up to the members of the forum....nothing Col or anyone else can do about that. Tetley states he often looks in and has a read and the odd time replys....fully up to him to do that...but if every member of the forum does that there would be around 3 topics.

I have lost track of the number of times I have said this, were not going to wake up one morning, log in and see that the forum is back to its hay-day....effort has to be made...people have to post...rather than simply sitting back and complaining about how things are now compared to previous years.

And this is not directed at your Warbler, far from it.
 
Totally agree Gal, and as I said;

"I'm afraid I don't share your optimism for the future based on the early evidence to date. The quality and frequency of contribution (imho) has undoubtedly deteriorated, and there seems little by way of light at the end of the tunnel".

I'm half remined of a recent thread on another forum where the membership is 95% apathetic and basically too lazy or unable to contribute. Suddenly someone started up a supposedly "best thread in ages". In truth it was nothing remarkable, but people joined in and indulged in some misplaced self-congratualtion imo. Fair enough, I'm not necessarily complaining about that, but it did remind of the story of the "little red hen" a bit. As far as I can see, this forum is more likely to drain contributors with the current malaise, and I can't help thinking that Kathy's misplaced oiptimism is wholly down to one single factor, and that this has clouded her judgement beyond what the current evidence would sustain.

If you continue to drive off your more prolific (numerically) and thoughtful contributors, then you're reduced to little more than hoping, that something will replace them. Otherwise you increasingly become a refuge for the pithy rude and lazy, who'd rather read than write. The result is a self-perpetutating downward spiral where lack of quality feeds apathy, this apathy feeds demotivation and withdrawal, which in turn feeds further apathy.
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Aug 19 2007, 12:43 PM


If you continue to drive off your more prolific (numerically) and thoughtful contributors, then you're reduced to little more than hoping, that something will replace them.
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In what way have they been driven off? Ardross was too precious over the Phil thing, his fan club left like the lemmings they are and Brian probably just got bored with the place.

Meanwhile the racing continues and if people have opinions on it they should post them.
 
I think some horrendous errors of misjudgement have been made, and provided Griffin is referring to what I believe she is? continue to do so under the current team.
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Can you let me know what (you think) she's referring to, Warbs? And what these horrendous errors of misjudgement are? Cos I've not got a clue.
 
Mind you we do tend to go through a quiet phase every year - by no coincidence it tends to be during the flat season!! So....all you flat bores are surely close to conceding that nothing can rival NH racing?! :D

I shall largely refrain from commenting on "t'other place" bar to make one observation - that to do with wanting "a happy forum with high standards of personal conduct amongst it's members so others don't feel intimidated". Personally I am of the opinion that many people would find it intimidating as it appears to be one big private love-in amongst people previously accused of being the infamous "TH clique". I frankly don't give a monkeys and am thick skinned enough to post regardless of that - there seems to me to be very much of an air about the place though; from the 'invitations' to join (not that I received one - someone else PMd me and mentioned it, bet there were a fair few hacked off people when I signed up!! :laughing: ) to the having to join to read anything on there at all, to the registration process which involves being personally "approved" by a moderator before you are allowed to post, to the lack of being able to sign in under cover of anonymity - not everyone wants to be cyber stalked! That's before you read one or two comments posted on there such as "I know of a few people I won't be inviting to join here" and "anyone is welcome so long as they post regularly" [or very similar wording]. I always feel as though I'm trespassing when I look on there!
 
Warbler, I am forever the optimist. If I didn't have things to be optimistic about, I wouldn't get out of my bed of a morning.

The success of this forum, any forum, is the quality of thought provoking and interesting postings that turn into a discussion. Unfortunately, I am unable to start or contribute to any of those :shy: , I leave those to others. There are people are on holiday, there has been a bit of a turnaround in the last few weeks, but with people like Gareth, Galileo, Chris, Colin and Betsmate all doing their bit to start threads and competitions etc then I am sure that even if it takes a few months, this forum can start to develop again.

IF you look around other racing forums, they seem to have very quiet days and weeks (months) and as we have fewer prolific posters now, that is only to be expected.

It will take time, but it will happen. Just you watch, Warbler! :D
 
This place ( as Dom and Kathy rightly point out) has always been quiet at times (more throughout hte flat season) - and with everything that has happened in the last few months, its no great suprise that people have edged away for a while. Give it a bit of time (and the NH season proper to re-start!! ) and I reckon most things will blow over.(at least I hope so)
 
I was invited to join the new forum, but decided against for reasons I've outlined above. From everything I've read above, some of it misleading and disgingenuous, some entirely predictable, I'm pretty sure I've made the right decision.

The FF forum is busier than it was, following the TH implosion; this one is less busy. On FF there are now a lot of people who were very talkative here, talking there about the same kinds of things they did here - eg Krizon. Personally I find the level of posting on both forums now, to be just about right.

On here we still have all the Irish contingent who always have much of interest to say. We have the stats and timesheet boys like Warbler. We have an interesting chitchat forum. Why do people want so much posting every day that there's hardly time to read the RP or watch the news? :P Some of the losses - and they are not THAT many for God's sake - are a mixed blessing - I miss Brian's tips for example, and some of his humour, but not his crushing belligerence. Not AT ALL. And I too can count 4/5 of the short list of names cited above who have sent me hostile pms.

As I've said before, I find the new TH much better for being quieter - in EVERY sense. I can do without that sinking feeling when I see the same name coming up EVERY day in answer to EVERY post..... More importantly, the old TH was a real nightmare of clashing egos - quite horrible much of the time. 'Older' members should think about how it came across to newbies... If it had been a real-life party I'd have walked out, and nearly did several times. It may take time to get back to a level of intimacy on here [it's there on FF thanks to the pre-TH-ers FF 'old guard'] where everyone gets the in jokes etc etc.

But that was also a mixed blessing here - it was such an 'IN' little club, with anyone else/new who wanted to really make a contribution treated like an interloper. A pack of snarling dogs was what it often resembled. As it is, I feel much easier posting and I'm much more likely to post up any tips or hunches.

And I'm currently quite confident in the objectivity and fairness of the current Mods, in that I don't feel my posts run any danger of being deleted with neither comment nor explanation, as has happened in the past, for no better reason than the mod didn't like them! - an occurrence I didn't feel merited any 'rise' from me. It's a long time since anyone - let alone TWO of the mods - accused me of lying or invention. I think a lot of the bereaved in here were in sad denial [or ignorance, maybe wilful?] about much of which was going on. Of course any forum should accept the discipline of the moderators - but that's hard to do when two of them are about as benevolent as foxes in a hencoop!

Of course it will take time to build up something different, and to re-gel. But it's happening already, so let's cut the crap and get on with it!
 
The 'crap' is closely related to the previous post.
This thread should have been strangled at birth by the mods but has been allowed to continue and fester. For God's sake lock it now.
 
Originally posted by Warbler@Aug 19 2007, 10:02 AM
I think some horrendous errors of misjudgement have been made, and provided Griffin is referring to what I believe she is? continue to do so under the current team.

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like what?
 
Just to clarify, when I say we invited people to join, what I mean is that Ardross and I emailed the people who we thought would be interested. I only had the email addresses of two or three members from TH, so it wasn't that many! If I knew more, I would've sent more, so there's no need for anyone to be offended if they didn't get 'invited'. I promised Col I would not abuse the PM system and I have kept to my word. Ardross admits to sending four PMs on FF, so he's hardly inviting people left, right and centre either, as others would have you believe. I asked him not to PM people on FF, despite the fact there are still several more people we'd like to reach. It's not some secret society, it's just hard to contact people through emails when we all use the PM facility so much.
 
I'm not sure your post regarding the merits of the two sites is helpful for either HS. I'd be equally sure that Ted wouldn't want to associate himself with what comes across as misplaced triumphalism too, as he's consistantly gonme to great pains to play down any 'us and them' and been equally anxious that animosity wasn't exported, and his own forum be used as a broadcasting mast for aggrieved elsewhere. Unfortunately, observations that are tantamount to "it's all gone quiet over there" to borrow from the football terraces do not reflect well. Especially as your description of FF and how well recieved all former and dual TH members have been, doesn't actually match all of the posts though does it?
 
Warbler, I'm sorry to say it but you seem to have completely reversed what I was getting at! I don't think I've indulged in any triumphalism. I've just stated, and given reasons why, I feel more comfortable on here these days.

I thought I'd also pointed out that FF is also a very pleasant place to be - after a slighty shaky few days aftr the first influx there's been no trouble over on FF really in comparision to what we've had here and long may that be so. I was actually remarking that - contrary to my own expectations - FF is now busily enjoyable, so anyone who was missing some regulars here could easily find them over there.

I don't recollect saying anything to 'compare' two sites, either! It was no secret that FF could be very quiet sometimes before the TH influx, Td often bemoaned the fact himself! Nor did I comment in fact on how the TH people had been received there - I know there have been mixed feelings about how the site has changed, and I'm not going to comment on that, except to say that all is now harmony :^)

All I did was to comment that for ME, speaking of volume of posts,
<< Personally I find the level of posting on both forums now, to be just about right >>

I don't see how that can give rise to your reaction, but there you are! It's a misunderstanding I think, maybe you should take another look. I've basically been trying to inject a positive note to counter all the doom and gloom about this forum, its current state, and its future, since I CAN'T SEE THERE IS ANY GREAT PROBLEM.
 
Originally posted by Headstrong@Aug 19 2007, 05:10 PM
The FF forum is busier than it was, following the TH implosion; this one is less busy. On FF there are now a lot of people who were very talkative here, talking there about the same kinds of things they did here - eg Krizon.
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I think it was the sentance I've extracted that is open to interpretation. Indeed, some would call it advertising.

It actually struck me just now, how bizzarre the whole flight of TH members is. Especially with the quasi political paralells, and even more so given some of the things Ted posted here in the political threads, which many of us disagreed with him on, (well I did anyway) But fair play to him, he's played a straight bat throughout on this one, sought to make no capital, and been quick to discourage anyone else trying, from doing so, and I'm quite happy to applaud him thus.

Locked in an ever bloodier civil war, the dispersed population of the divided and ravaged republic of TH sought sanctuary and claimed asylum in neighbouring FF. President Ted welcomed the fleeing refugees in, and applauded them for the very valuable skills and insights they brought to their new home. Some of the native population however weren't so obliging, and accused the immigrant TH'ers of imposing their own culture and ways upon their hosts and diluting their indigenious identity

Anyway in an attempt to turn this thread round into something a bit more positive, I'm tempted (by way of clumsy market research) to actually ask openly people in one word or two or three if necessary to describe a feature that they feel is most important to a successful forum? and see where it takes us shrug::
 
FF is busier but they still rarely have any thought provoking racing discussions. Which kind of tells you all you need to know about the members who have de-camped there.

Despite being by and large a flat man (although i sense the gap narrowing as i get older) this place is better in the winter with BobbyJo and Garney posting more often.
 
Just to put a tiny bit of perspective in the recent "issues" on this forum if you get a few spare mins read the thread at the top of this page, entitled: Board Rules, Everyone please read and "Moderators". We may forget that we have been here before, hence the new rules.

I had to smile at the comment from Ardross to PDJ on the "moderators" thread instructing him to get in training with the delete button. Just a quick reminder, should we need it, of how it use to be on here. :suspect:
 
Galileo pm'd both Krizon and myself recently, asking us to become active on this forum again, as he explained that matters had settled down and moved on.

As I had a quiet ten minutes this morning, I thought I'd reconsider my response to him and take a look. This thread was a pretty obvious place to start.

So I've now worked my way through the various responses and am reassured to find that my reply to Galileo has been entirely justified by reading all of the above.

Ted has indeed been a star in being fair and supportive to both his 'old-timers' and those of us who 'invaded' the site. It has been amusing to see the feathers ruffled of a couple of also relatively recent FF members who considered that they ought to try and knock a few corners off the supposedly new kids on the block, which just goes to show that some people are insecure both in cyber space and real life. The major difference between here and there is that Ted has time to be involved on a daily basis. When I was a Moderator on here, it was something of a frustration that Col, for various reasons, was too busy to be involved on a daily basis and therefore inevitably didn't get the same 'feel' for what had been going on and therefore made a few decisions that did not support the moderating team.

According to the email I received, Brian simply got fed up with the fact that this place needed too much time being 'patrolled' and had better things to do with his time than act as a playground supervisor for the spats between certain members on here. He also wanted Phil Waters banned ages ago.

It says much for some of your own personalities that you assume people are unable to change. I believe many lessons were learnt from time spent here but it remains to be seen whether they will be put in practice over on the new forum - I believe they will but of course that still remains to be seen.

I certainly don't flatter myself my absence here will make one jot of difference to this place - of course it won't. I hope TH reinvents itself and also learns from the mistakes many of those above who have been so - well, vindictive is the only word to describe it really - also have made on here but the very fact that this thread exists at all makes me doubt that.

We supposedly live in a democratic society with the mantra that if you don't like the way something is run, get off your arse and change it. That's exactly what Griffin has done - TH doesn't own the copyright for a racing forum - if there's sufficient support for her Board it will survive - if there isn't, it won't. Hardly rocket science.

My unasked for advice for some of you on here is get over yourselves. Join the new forum if you want to or don't but all this thread is doing is picking at an old scab.
 
Originally posted by Songsheet@Aug 22 2007, 12:40 PM

As I had a quiet ten minutes this morning, I thought I'd reconsider my response to him and take a look. This thread was a pretty obvious place to start.

So I've now worked my way through the various responses and am reassured to find that my reply to Galileo has been entirely justified by reading all of the above.
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I really don`t see the problem now Phil has gone. People are way too sensitive.
 
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