Gold Cup 2009 (was: Denman)

Jesus, how old are some people?

SL - I think you should change your signature.

I'd like to see Sam Thomas ride him in the Gold Cup.
 
So good you had to say it four times?!

My signature hasn't drawn any complaints in the weeks it's been there and I don't really see why it should do.
 
SL,

I'll be blunt - don't start topics or bother moderators making complaints about stalking when your signature is making fun of.

This having the last word childish nonsense is why a lot of people want to come on here lately.

Back to Denman please.
 
God streuth... I despair at times, I really do.

Horse is fat,
oh no it isn't
oh yes it is
 
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Back to Denman

Scratched from the Grand National.

Hardly getting the full confidence of the boardroom at the moment.
 
Perhaps they should wait for the French race if they want to run him this year? I have a very hard time seeing how he'll make up the ground he needs to make up between now and the Gold Cup.
 
I can't believe Denman was outpaced by Madison, isn't that what Denmans all about finishing home like thunder, he just capitulated as soon Tom Scudamore upped the tempo and that's not the Denman I know, a shadow of his former self. We can make excuses for the horse werent fit and need a run - its arguable, but he's no stranger from a racecourse and from what I gather he started cantering in November which is long enough especially working within such a good yard with top horse's. You can't be anything more then disapointed with this run and for him to come off the back off this lift himself to win a Gold Cup I am not sure he has what it takes.

This sport's about opinions don't kill me here please lol
 
uncle goober said:
Back to Denman

Scratched from the Grand National.

Hardly getting the full confidence of the boardroom at the moment.
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The National never really looked on anyway, especially not now. I hope he comes on enough to defend his Gold Cup, but that too must be in the balance. I can't see him running to 185 in the Gold Cup this year from his 160 performance at the weekend, but maybe he can come on around a stone (depending on how much they can coax out of him), which would be good enough to go close in a pretty average year (but this year looks a little better than that). I'm not brimming with confidence, but there is still hope.

It may be better to finish him off for the season having said that, but I guess we all hope it won't come to that.
 
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quote trackside528:
I tend to agree with Galileo that the horse might be best served by being let off now and bringing him back next year with a proper preparation.

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You may both be right. Working him hard now is the only chance he'll have this term... but perhaps that's not the thing to do.

Very frustrating call.
 
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Gareth Flynn said:
EC - when you're talking about the time of the race, why are you only comparing against one other race on the card? What about the other chases?
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i have explained this..understandably finding it on this thread is difficult

the way that NH courses are so lax with where they start races from..distances are to teh nearest half furlong I've seen quoted..makes using other race distances/standards a far more inaccureate way of making a decision on the merit of a speed figure...direct comparison with a decent same distance marker is the way to go for me
 
SteveM - Do you feel a the direction of the course would really matter with the quallity of Denman? maybe to a quirky class 5 chaser?
 
If his head isn't right he isn't going to do anything regardless of how fit they can get him. He lacked "presence" beforehand and Ruby saying that he had to work hard to get him interested makes me wary.

If the Gold Cup took so much out of him that it took him months to recover, he isn't likely to want to repeat the experience for a while. Even if they can't talk, animals have their own ways of saying "not interested" and Denman certainly didn't show that much enthusiasm the other day.

The choice at present seems to be either rough him off and give him a proper break, or go for broke to defend his crown and risk getting him beaten and damaging his self-esteem, which could take ages to recover.

He needed 3 runs last season to get fully fit. This one and the big one may not be sufficient, but his lack of interest worries me most.
 
Denman's form conclusively shows that going right handed doesn't suit - he tried to run out at Wincanton as a novice hurdler (and apparently tried again when having a racecourse gallop there) and posted a less than impressive performance at Exeter in a novice chase when long odds-on.
 
it also does for Kauto

remember the post at xmas re his preference..basically makes all his mistakes left handed..forgot the poster name now..he made a lovely case out for it

KS is such a poor fav for the GC
 
...and as you said earlier, there's a doubt over the trip at that track [Cheltenham] in a truly run race. At least I'm one of those who subscribe to that theory.
 
The stats seem to favour second season chasers (or those which haven't run in the race before).

I'm just not keen on last year's novices. It is possible that the conditions of the race will bring about improvement in some of them, though. Will need to, I think.

It would make the Festival for me if Kauto made history, but I feel the same as I did when I watched Dessie. My head says no.
 
From what little I admit to knowing, I can't believe the GN was ever talked about with any seriousness. If he were mine I would far prefer to aim, all being well, for the chance of winning 3 GCs than risking him in a GN. Has anything been said about how he was yesterday/is today does anyone know?
 
he won't win two GC's though G-G

if, as we are led to believe, he hasn't got much more improvement from Saturday then he won't even place in the GC...in fact I really fear for the horse if put in the race

they need to take stock and think about the welfare of the horse and a future a little more ahead than the next month
 
Let's face it. The only reason that Denman is a Gold Cup winner at all, is because an undercooked/unfit/injured* Kauto Star was rushed back for a Gold Cup so that Nicholls could feed his ego in the so-called Clash of the Titans.

If the same thing happens to Denman then its just a rare bit of sporting karma playing out in an incredibly short space of time.

When Kauto Star wins in six weeks time I'm sure that the debate will rumble on. I'll back Ruby's choice from the No. 1 box at Ditcheat.

*delete as appropriate.
 
EC1 said:
he won't win two GC's though G-G

if, as we are led to believe, he hasn't got much more improvement from Saturday then he won't even place in the GC...in fact I really fear for the horse if put in the race

they need to take stock and think about the welfare of the horse and a future a little more ahead than the next month
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If that's what they are saying then no, unless others fall over. I agree - would be horrible to see something nasty happen to him.
 
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