Goodbye to Finalfurlong forum

Grasshopper said:
What you're talking about isn't really a Forum though is it, CPG. It's a special-interest, closed-shop, that just happens to use the Internet to trade ideas.
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Isn't that what this pace is though? Special interest 'talking horses', it's just now there's as much action in the general chat area, and this place is wide open.


Slim has already said there are a group of people on here that he's learned to trust on certain areas over the years. He is also on the same particular email group as myself, which is sent out to 13 people, so thats 14 all up. I see nothing different in some regards.

Gigilo also states he sends out emails to a few as well. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure discussions are had.

It was only a hypothetical idea anyway, you elitist cunts. :)
 
I think the danger forums face are numerous

To some extent the novelty of being all joined up that we first experienced when you could type something into cyberspace and look back in 5 minutes and discover that someone in Brazil had replied to you, has worn off

If you're going for a mass inclusive forum, you need to tread that fine line between balancing quality with quantity. Too much of the former and it becomes too heavy and will alienate the masses, it will however likely maintain a commited niche. I think too much of the latter is the bigger danger as this invaribaly means pitching in against the likes of Twitter, Facebook and even Reddit. It also has the effect of driving those people who are prepared and capable of making substantive contributions away if all they're faced with a series of one liners which basically don't provoke thought or merit a reply. If someone writes in one liners, people tend to reply to them in one liners. Before you know where you are, you've got banal Twitter feed. If you drift too far way from this corridor of balance and spend too long there, then it becomes incredibly difficult to recover. This is what I think happened to FF, and the will to save it didn't exist amongst the membership, nor could they recruit new blood. Over the medium term the inevitable consequence of not being able to replenish is that they get smaller to the point where they give it up.

Before TH grows too self-regarding though, it wouldn't be immune from the same pressures. At the moment though it is performing a role as life raft for failing forum elsewhere so will continue to maintain it's position.
 
CPGagie said:
Isn't that what this pace is though? Special interest 'talking horses', it's just now there's as much action in the general chat area, and this place is wide open.


Slim has already said there are a group of people on here that he's learned to trust on certain areas over the years. He is also on the same particular email group as myself, which is sent out to 13 people, so thats 14 all up. I see nothing different in some regards.

Gigilo also states he sends out emails to a few as well. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm sure discussions are had.

It was only a hypothetical idea anyway, you elitist cunts. :)
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That mail is excellent. You can never have enough knowledgable opinion especially given he bets it himself in a very serious manner. Gigilo is a genius and plenty of us made good cash when he was posting picks everyday. He's got the all weather by the bollocks.
 
SlimChance said:
But how is that any different to a Facebook group setup for say sharing betting ideas and information? People come on here for a range of different reasind and it produces all sorts of opinion which are expressed without time constraints. It's rather refreshing compared to the instananeous 140 character drivel. Members on here can each can add a piece of the jigsaw sometimes without them.knowing they are doing so.
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It's different to a facebook page as it's a designated forum. Facebook sucks. The jigsaw is what would hopefully happen, though would I ask with reasoning something at 33/1 EP on this open forum for guests and all to see, perhaps even the day before? Not a chance.

Time constraints can be an issue. The larger and busier the forum, the more time I tend to spend dicking about on it.

Some people like large forums, I prefer smaller ones, so long as they're active with good content. The perfect size with correct members was only a hypothetical scenario that was discussed, but one which I do think it would have been spot on.
 
CPGagie said:
It's different to a facebook page as it's a designated forum. Facebook sucks. The jigsaw is what would hopefully happen, though would I ask with reasoning something at 33/1 EP on this open forum for guests and all to see, perhaps even the day before? Not a chance.

Time constraints can be an issue. The larger and busier the forum, the more time I tend to spend dicking about on it.

Some people like large forums, I prefer smaller ones, so long as they're active with good content. The perfect size with correct members was only a hypothetical scenario that was discussed, but one which I do think it would have been spot on.
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Putting anything up on the forum betting wise is a very dangerous game unless you're a bluffer. The amount of traction successful Facebook tipsters get is amazing and I believe their intentions to be that of the Wild West . Punters love following people in and they are also willing to pay a nominal fee for 'winning information'.
 
When was being a decent and courteous member of a forum with an opinion on the racing as most people have not enough?

That must be a sign places like this are thriving...the fact that people feel a cull is needed!

As for Final Furlong, what was the REAL reason it shut down.
One liners or even essays don't make a forum shut down, shurely?
 
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One liners (or poor content) erode it, but won't close it down on their own. What they tend to do is frame the type of people to whom it will appeal and the sort of content it will be locked into reproducing. Essays will also damage it, but you're more likely to develop a small niche going down that route of likeminded people.

You will almost certainly be able to speak in shorthand (one liners) if a small band of collborators trust each other. I don't have any problem with that, that is different. Gigilo is an excellent example. He'd be someone (quite rare) who is able to carry that off without any question, but that's a status he's earned

The reasons for the demise of FF are numerous, but one thing its racing section could never be accused of was lengthy essays!!! Hell, even Bruce Savage gave up on the place unable to provoke a response
 
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marble said:
When was being a decent and courteous member of a forum with an opinion on the racing as most people have not enough?
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I think that's pretty much spot on. There are still reasons why a racing forum is likely to close though:

1. Aggressive idiots given a free hand.
2. Over/under moderation which is always a tough one to get right.
3. Stale and inane contributions.
4. A site owner who loses interest, and begins to regard it as a thankless task. (Not you hopefully Col!)

Slim has it absolutely spot on also. There's plenty of knowledge to seek out privately where necessary, but the quality of day to day contributions here is generally very good.

The flip side is TH has also lost a few people (good people who make good contributions), in the last few months, and many others contribute less and don't engage the way they used to because of things that went unchecked.

Moderation is a thankless task, but when there is consistent namecalling and constant aggressive posts, and it's not in jest, there comes a time when either moderation is necessary or the risk of more people walking increases. There is a substantive difference between vigorous debate with tongue in cheek riposte, and abuse and aggression and it's not hard to see or read, particularly as it's behaviour that repeats time and again.

I saw the demise of Neigh because of three of the reasons above. At least two and possibly more apply to Ted's place, and at least one is true here.
 
Grasshopper said:
TH is in the sweet-spot as forums go.

It has just about the right amount of regular posters, and most all of them are opinionated gits, which pretty-much guarantees robust and interesting discourse. If a forum gets beyond a certain point in terms of volume, it leads either to repetition or to threads which are impossible to follow - which was where TRF was, around the time I stopped posting there.
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Sweet spot is a good description of where we are at the moment- there is no shortage of lively discussion and diverse opinion.8 weeks into 2015 two significant tips that were well signposted here have won Rolling Maul at 33/1 and Katie T at 14/1.
From a personal perspective there is no shortage of people on here who I would love to meet and have a drink with.
 
Maruco said:
I think that's pretty much spot on. There are still reasons why a racing forum is likely to close though:

1. Aggressive idiots given a free hand.
2. Over/under moderation which is always a tough one to get right.
3. Stale and inane contributions.
4. A site owner who loses interest, and begins to regard it as a thankless task. (Not you hopefully Col!)

Slim has it absolutely spot on also. There's plenty of knowledge to seek out privately where necessary, but the quality of day to day contributions here is generally very good.

The flip side is TH has also lost a few people (good people who make good contributions), in the last few months, and many others contribute less and don't engage the way they used to because of things that went unchecked.

Moderation is a thankless task, but when there is consistent namecalling and constant aggressive posts, and it's not in jest, there comes a time when either moderation is necessary or the risk of more people walking increases. There is a substantive difference between vigorous debate with tongue in cheek riposte, and abuse and aggression and it's not hard to see or read, particularly as it's behaviour that repeats time and again.

I saw the demise of Neigh because of three of the reasons above. At least two and possibly more apply to Ted's place, and at least one is true here.
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Yes we lose people from the forum but is that any different to anything else in life? I don'd drink in the same circles as I did 5 years ago. People move on and your circle of people changes all the time, usually for the better. I'm still in daily contact with people of old from the forum because we have a vested interest of making money.
 
I thought Neigh was basically a forum that had a lot of mates, contacts in, Maruco.
People who liked to meet in the pub. Nothing wrong with all of that of course, but it's worth noting.

If you joined from the outside, had something to say for yourself you were shot down in flames.

Where Neigh went wrong is it didn't really want to embrace the outside, and decisions were made by it's owner to make admin decisions based on group consensus....the same consensus that was made up of a group of people who knew each other and went down the pub together.

I'm not disagreeing with your sentiments Maruco, and you know the situation more than me re-trouble.

I can see why people still feel a bit angry over it...after all..... forums like neigh have increased traffic and paved the way for forums like this.

I always saw the bickering with Bobhorse, thinking to myself what an interesting poster he was at times, and why people never reached out to him and embraced the man? :)

Ps, I'm not intending to have a dig at neigh, just giving a different opinion on how that experience would have worked out better for people and the forum itself.
 
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I still embrace him ( Bobhorse ), he had the best avatarof them all. If I am anywhere near his stamping ground we meet up. Neigh was excellent and I made many good racing friends from it that still hold today
 
Neigh wasn't cliquey - it just had a tiny amount of regular posters most of whom didn't visit outside the Jumps season, and one particular nugget who tried to dominate every thread and was an antagonistic co*ck-end (for the record, it wasn't bobhorse but someone else). It also didn't help that years worth of posts were lost during the first big crash, and that Phil chose not to persevere after the second one.

I was a late joiner to Neigh (underscore was a member and marked my card about it) and was always made to feel welcome, in much the same way as I was when I joined TRF and TH. And like Roddy, I have made a goodly amount of new friends through my involvement in forums, and it's been a real pleasure to meet-up with these people over time, when circumstances have allowed......my recent jolly to Leopardstown being a point-in-fact.

There are clearly friendships between certain posters - either established or new - but that doesn't equate to a clique, in my mind. And who cares if there's a clique anyway? There's plenty enough other Members to talk to.
 
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Grasshopper said:
It also didn't help that years worth of posts were lost during the first big crash, and that Phil chose not to persevere after the second one.
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I wouldn't under estimate the damage that the 'first?' server crash did myself either (wasn't aware it had , had another?) IMO it never recovered. When it did limp back into action it had also spawned a couple of new names, one of whom was becoming problematic. He did say he was going to leave "thank God I thought" but for reasons I never understood Phil persuaded him to stay and in doing so would have confined the forum to its slow inevitable. Personally it was a final straw for me, but I was losing interest by then anyway. What happened after that I really couldn't tell you as I never viewed the forum again, but it wouldn't leave much to the imagination (although it appears it endured a second crash?)

I think an additional problem it had was that it lost continuity during the flat season as it overloaded and became too jumps focused. The consequence is that when October rolled around each year, there always seemed to have been a few who'd gone missing and never came back on parade. In that regard I think it suffered from a bit of 'out of sight, out of mind' syndrome
 
I was never a member of either Neigh or FF but was on TRF quite early on when it was a lot like this place is now.... Then Cormack decided to proliferate and it went to sh!t. Too many forums, too many inane posts and as someone pointed out it became like a goldfish bowl with regularly regurgitated threads. I'm not one for flitting and changing but the best thing I did was move here.

I don't know anyone off the forum but that doesn't bother me, I just enjoy the banter, debate and the wealth of knowledgeable people.

We should be thankful for what we have. I visit this site probably more than any other bar possibly the RP but I tend to read one after the other.

Edited to say: I don't know why I've never made more effort to meet people from here.... On reflection after posting maybe I should cos I actually quite like you lot ;)
 
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Aragorn said:
I don't know anyone off the forum but that doesn't bother me, I just enjoy the banter, debate and the wealth of knowledgeable people.
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Same here.:)

I like the fact when I decide to drop the forum and horses for periods of time I don't have it chasing me round the real world in my day to day life, personally.
 
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Aragorn said:
I was never a member of either Neigh or FF but was on TRF quite early on when it was a lot like this place is now.... Then Cormack decided to proliferate and it went to sh!t.
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Suitably inspired by this thread, I had a nose at TRF for the first time in a very, very long time today.

One of the first threads I came upon, was one with Cormack confirming that he was preparing to delete half the TRF archive, to make porting to (presumably) their new hosting site easier. It seems that this decision has been rescinded, after the ever-wise Drone suggested it was "cultural vandalism" and the equivalent of book-burning.

The original decision, made seemingly in complete isolation from the TRF members, is the perfect example of what went wrong with that forum. David Cormack is a lovely fellah, but I think he lost sight of why he intervened to save TRF in the first place, following Daylight's sad passing......assuming his original motivations were as altruistic as they appeared at the time.
 
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