Goodbye to Finalfurlong forum

some interesting posts in here and not what I expected when I made the topic!
I personally don't think a forum with 2 members is a forum, you may as well set up a facebook private group, or just use some messaging app, or text each other if that is the case, same with having just a dozen members, but each to their own, just my opinion. What do you do when people leave though, how do you replace them? People's lives change. 20 years ago I used to spend hours on form every saturday morning, and hours for the big meetings, now I have a family, I don't have time, my lifes changed to where priorites have changed, which is why I rarely post about racing now. I'm sure that happens to others too. Many many reasons why people might not contribute as much over the years, if you never get any new members, how do you replace them?

I think one advantage we have is that, due to the nature of the forum, and its name, people who find us are genuinely interested in racing (or betting), so new members do have a genuine opinion, rather than a lot of forums where you get a lot of trolling.

Regarding the moderation, surprisingly there is VERY little required on here, there tends to be little spurts where theres loads to do all within the space of a few days, then theres nothing for months. I know some think I'm too laid back, but its worked 99% of the time for 16 years now, yes I might get it wrong on occasion, in fact I'm sure I do, but everyone makes mistakes. When i have bowed to pressure in the past, I have always had pm's afterwards saying they thought I was wrong, so just goes to show you can't please everyone all the time. A notable example was Phil, reading the forum you would think everyone wanted him banning, I banned him and got over 30 pm's from different people saying they though he shouldn't have been banned! I could ban a few members just from this thread alone for rule breaches, I don't think anyone wants it to be like that do they?

What happened to Atacanta, is it still going?

I think it's possibly this last point that a lot of fora were perhaps slow to repsond to as things like SEO, social media, share buttons, and paid per click started to embed themselves across cyberspace.
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Before I upgraded the forum we had full facebook integration, along with tweet this post buttons and suchlike, I don't think any of it got used, I certainly didn't notice it, and haven't had any requests for it to be put back since the upgrade. You can like posts on here, again, not sure anyone ever does, quite unsure as to why no one does use it tbh.

As for Final Furlong, what was the REAL reason it shut down.
One liners or even essays don't make a forum shut down, shurely?
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Lack of use from what I can see, which comes back to the first thing I posted above. People move on, when they do, if you don't replace them, you have nothing left. Ted always kept the forum private, you had to join to view posts, I don't think I've ever joined a forum where that was the case.

The flip side is TH has also lost a few people (good people who make good contributions), in the last few months, and many others contribute less and don't engage the way they used to because of things that went unchecked.
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Thats a bit unfair, just because stuff isn't discussed in the open it doesn't mean nothing was done in private.

Moderation is a thankless task, but when there is consistent namecalling and constant aggressive posts, and it's not in jest, there comes a time when either moderation is necessary or the risk of more people walking increases. There is a substantive difference between vigorous debate with tongue in cheek riposte, and abuse and aggression and it's not hard to see or read, particularly as it's behaviour that repeats time and again.
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Agreed, but when things are on a screen in front of you it isn't that easy to know if its said in jest or not. It's espcially difficult for moderators when something kicks off big style, it has been ongoing for months, but no one has bothered to click the report button to let the mods know whats going on! Moderation has to be part members responsibility, mods don't read every single post, every forum replies on reports to alert mods of any trouble brewing.

Yes we lose people from the forum but is that any different to anything else in life? I don'd drink in the same circles as I did 5 years ago. People move on and your circle of people changes all the time, usually for the better.
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Exactly :)
 
A notable example was Phil, reading the forum you would think everyone wanted him banning, I banned him and got over 30 pm's from different people saying they though he shouldn't have been banned!

they were all from Phil:)
 
:lol:

That was my first reaction. He used to send me the odd PM with yet another unlikely name he had sleeping. Funnily enough, I dod remember him saying he had 25 registrations
 
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"I personally don't think a forum with 2 members is a forum, you may as well set up a facebook private group, or just use some messaging app, or text each other if that is the case, same with having just a dozen members, but each to their own, just my opinion. What do you do when people leave though, how do you replace them? People's lives change. 20 years ago I used to spend hours on form every saturday morning, and hours for the big meetings, now I have a family, I don't have time, my lifes changed to where priorites have changed, which is why I rarely post about racing now. I'm sure that happens to others too. Many many reasons why people might not contribute as much over the years, if you never get any new members, how do you replace them?"

Technically, it is still a forum with 2 members, but I get your point. However, the site went down recently and we reverted to emails, which didn't work well, as copying and pasting was tricky with hotmail. I just prefer the forum layout for display and navigation. As for facebook, no way, awful. Don't own a working mobile, as dislike them with a passion.

The list we drew up which would be around a dozen eventually, I'd say all members would have been 45+, and yes life can still change after that, but I think (in fact know) most would not be giving up racing. As for new members needed due to the odd person leaving or someone passing away, it would be done via discussion followed by invite (if needed).


A few that have left here are posting on another forum, which is open but also has a private area. I was invited over there and gained access to the private area without having to go through the waiting/vetting period, as did a few others. It is getting busier though, and the open forum has become little more than a twat filter. I'm reluctant to post much, unless I know it's certain to contract in price, even then I cant be bothered at times. I fear it will become cyclical with members now, as it seems to have gone past the point of return (beyond the sweet spot). It was great a year ago, with 20 - 25 members posting in the private area on a very regular basis (half with very good reasoning daily), now there's the same amount of posts (maybe a bit less), with probably 3 times the membership.


Again, my idea of a perfect forum would be with 10 members. The quantity of quality posts would at least equal what would ever be 'publicly' posted on an open forum, and I reckon even the overall volume would actually be similar. Depends what ones idea of a forum is though. In my opinion open forums are for a bit of fun and showboating with tips, private forums are to be part of a team. People may not like me saying the showboating bit, but thats how I see it, and I do it myself at times. Sometimes if I'm going to have a bet, well, I may as well get a few pats on the back after the event as well.
 
CPGagie said:
"I personally don't think a forum with 2 members is a forum, you may as well set up a facebook private group, or just use some messaging app, or text each other if that is the case, same with having just a dozen members, but each to their own, just my opinion. What do you do when people leave though, how do you replace them? People's lives change. 20 years ago I used to spend hours on form every saturday morning, and hours for the big meetings, now I have a family, I don't have time, my lifes changed to where priorites have changed, which is why I rarely post about racing now. I'm sure that happens to others too. Many many reasons why people might not contribute as much over the years, if you never get any new members, how do you replace them?"

Technically, it is still a forum with 2 members, but I get your point. However, the site went down recently and we reverted to emails, which didn't work well, as copying and pasting was tricky with hotmail. I just prefer the forum layout for display and navigation. As for facebook, no way, awful. Don't own a working mobile, as dislike them with a passion.

The list we drew up which would be around a dozen eventually, I'd say all members would have been 45+, and yes life can still change after that, but I think (in fact know) most would not be giving up racing. As for new members needed due to the odd person leaving or someone passing away, it would be done via discussion followed by invite (if needed).


A few that have left here are posting on another forum, which is open but also has a private area. I was invited over there and gained access to the private area without having to go through the waiting/vetting period, as did a few others. It is getting busier though, and the open forum has become little more than a twat filter. I'm reluctant to post much, unless I know it's certain to contract in price, even then I cant be bothered at times. I fear it will become cyclical with members now, as it seems to have gone past the point of return (beyond the sweet spot). It was great a year ago, with 20 - 25 members posting in the private area on a very regular basis (half with very good reasoning daily), now there's the same amount of posts (maybe a bit less), with probably 3 times the membership.


Again, my idea of a perfect forum would be with 10 members. The quantity of quality posts would at least equal what would ever be 'publicly' posted on an open forum, and I reckon even the overall volume would actually be similar. Depends what ones idea of a forum is though. In my opinion open forums are for a bit of fun and showboating with tips, private forums are to be part of a team. People may not like me saying the showboating bit, but thats how I see it, and I do it myself at times. Sometimes if I'm going to have a bet, well, I may as well get a few pats on the back after the event as well.
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What people would not like you saying that? I'm the undisputed king of the show boat tip. Tip is the wrong word given the amount of burials I have put the inferiors into. No one comes close to me. The inferiors on here cause a second wave on the horses I smash up and why not? It s fun for people to win. A forum with 12 egos all throwing out cliches about why they fancy something is my idea of torture. Like the €50 hooker just horse it into me and **** the foreplay. Just tell me the bet and that you're having a wedge on. Job done.
 
SlimChance said:
Like the €50 hooker just horse it into me and **** the foreplay. Just tell me the bet and that you're having a wedge on. Job done.
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When did the price go up??

Anyway, I'm the type who needs reasoning before putting blind faith in another's tips/info. Occasionally, once I get to trust someone enough I'll maybe follow them in without asking any more questions.
 
Desert Orchid said:
When did the price go up??

Anyway, I'm the type who needs reasoning before putting blind faith in another's tips/info. Occasionally, once I get to trust someone enough I'll maybe follow them in without asking any more questions.
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:lol:

I completely understand your sentiment and I always need more too. Reasoning is all well and good but if it's an essay for the sake of looking like you have reasoning then it should go in the bin. There are a lot of offenders out ther making a living from connecting cliches. Soneone like you that comes from such a strong formbook selection method must find it tedious too?
 
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It's all relevant to the depth of study, Slim. Recently I posted - "I'm not going to bother with a write up, as it's all on the surface, take a look. Retro Valley 9/4".

Others that you've had to dig deeper for, need a write up. Not a huge 6 paragraph job that takes 10 minutes to read and half an hour to absorb, but a brief run down to cover all significant points.
 
CPGagie said:
A few that have left here are posting on another forum, which is open but also has a private area. I was invited over there and gained access to the private area without having to go through the waiting/vetting period, as did a few others. It is getting busier though, and the open forum has become little more than a twat filter. I'm reluctant to post much, unless I know it's certain to contract in price, even then I cant be bothered at times. I fear it will become cyclical with members now, as it seems to have gone past the point of return (beyond the sweet spot). It was great a year ago, with 20 - 25 members posting in the private area on a very regular basis (half with very good reasoning daily), now there's the same amount of posts (maybe a bit less), with probably 3 times the membership.
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I did actually toy with the idea of a private forum on here a few years ago, but didn't do it as, firstly didn't know who to invite or how to select who to invite. Also, I was worried that if, say the top 10 posters had access to that, they would stop posting on the main forum, then you get the knocjk on effect, less posts, less users, less people finding us, less people joining etc. A bit like the mods forum, can people still see the link to the mods forum in chit chat or is it hidden completely?
FWIW if anyone wants a hidden forum for their own use with a small group of people by invite only, feel free to drop me a PM, the infrastructure is already here, the platform is stable (we have very little downtime) and it would take me about 10 minutes to set up. No problem doing that for anyone :)
 
Am hating the idea of that !
It would mean a two-tier forum -- an open one for the plebs and a secret garden for the "In-Crowd". ('Least that is how they would be perceived).
It would lead to disillusionment and discord. What about a member, say, who has been a regular from the very beginning of TH not being invited; how would he feel?
Keep it the way it is, I reckon. Any one person or persons who wants to communicate privately with others already has that facility with PM.
 
SlimChance said:
Reasoning is all well and good but if it's an essay for the sake of looking like you have reasoning then it should go in the bin. There are a lot of offenders out ther making a living from connecting cliches. Soneone like you that comes from such a strong formbook selection method must find it tedious too?
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It depends on who's writing it, I suppose.

If the reasoning makes sense and is engagingly written (and appropriately paragraphed :whistle:), I'm happy to read it.

I think if you're putting up a selection that's 5/4 it shouldn't need much further explanation, maybe a reason for the main dangers not really being dangers at all, but to be honest I'd be ashamed if I put up a short shot, even if it won, unless it was the Gold Cup or something like that.

I get a much bigger kick out of my usual kind of price, even if it gets beat, but baulk at putting it up here because of the history of sniping on here.
 
For as long as I know Chris (ten years?), he has been an advocate of this idea on FF and elsewhere. And to the best of my knowledge it has not been implemented by any admin of any forum -- for a good reason,very good reasons, some of which have been specified in DVD's post#86 above.
The logical conclusion o fa desire for privacy and concealment would be to put the forum on the Darknet accessible only via TOR encryption and private-key membership. How extreme is that.
We're discussing horseracing, for god's sake, and other betting related sports, with a little natter on ChitChat thrown in. ............... not the undiscovered secret of nuclear cold fusion. No matter what some person on here thinks will win the Kempton 3:05, the final indicator of its chances will be the Betfair market where all information is assimilated, disassembled and put back together in an Odds format five minutes before the Off to indicate its true chance of winning.
 
Also with Ice on this matter. There's no need for a separate, private forum, whilst the PM facility is still working.
 
I can just imagine the heads of secret services of the UK and USA having a coffee in a locked room:

- OK, chaps. Budgets are down again this year. Our contacts are complaining that we're not paying them enough. The expenses budget is so tight we're only having instant coffee and no biscuits instead of the sumptuous lunches we used to enjoy, and information is drying up a bit.
- So how do we get more information on the cheap? Our budgets still aint too bad. We can maybe chip in with a buck or three.
- Hmm, difficult one, chaps. Hmmmm.
- How about setting up a website for ordinary folks to think they're passing on dirt on anyone at all: celebs, bankers, industrialists, you know the sorts.
- Spiffing idea. What will we call it? Needs to be catchy if we want to catch people.
- Darkleaks?
- I say, that does sound catchy... clandestine even...
- Clandewhat?
- Clandestine.. You know, it means... oh well, never mind... Yes. Let's do that. You chaps will see to it all, won't you? And you'll pass all the info on to us, right?
- Right.



[Or does that count as an essay?]
 
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I'm not really seeing that length of post is an issue..well its not to me...and to be fair it shouldn't be to anyone that wants to see the forum stay as it is or improve

Lets put it this way..if we have a few posters who write lengthy posts...or one liners...and the general view is that is not welcome here..then that poster is likely to bugger off..thats not a wise view to take imo..in fact its plain daft.

My view is..that if you have a beef against a certain type/length of post..then don't read it..its really very simple tbh,,very simple

If you have no interest in a thread..then don't read it...rather that than post some negative comment on it just for the sake of showing you find that thread not to your taste..just ignore it.

all this..i don't like this and i don't like that... is so unnecessary really isn't it?
 
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Thats not quite true, Jack. I've always had an issue with guests (with good reason), but I've never advocated a private forum within one. I myself have felt resentment when joining a forum a few years ago (forget what it was called, they had a comp each week where the winner would win a crate of beer). I posted 2 winners at double figure odds, and then asked what that certain area was, I was told it was a place for the regulars to discuss things, so I never went back.

I'm not suggesting a private area within this forum.

A totally external forum (without resorting to Tor), makes no difference. The forum that I'm part of now, has a private area, and I suggested a while ago that the whole place should be locked down, as there was more than enough members, any more could be by invite, but quantity ruled. There are people within the private area that post their work in full for other members to use, these include SF's, HCP's ratings, Class figures, Stats and more (which better any published figures imo), all in an easy to use format and readily accessible each day, along with the daily write ups. Will the forum getting busier cause resentment? It is only a matter of time before some trolls break through, and nothing to stop the free lunch brigade from relaying others hard work elsewhere. I'm posting less in there, and it seems others might be as well. As I said, the membership is right up, yet quantity seems the same.

Is there any resentment in here already? Gigilo has an email group, you all know about that. They'll be discussing things the night before racing. I'm part of the same email group as Slim, is that causing resentment? Theres a PM feature which will be used. "Oh no, what are they all up to"? So whats the big deal? What is the difference between a private email group, and using a forum in cyberspace for the same thing (other than a forum is more user friendly, especially if sharing work)?


There is nothing to stop members of a private forum posting elsewhere. If you think of the private forum as an office, and a place like this as the pub, then there's nothing stopping anyone going for a pint at lunchtime and saying what they fancy for the 3:15. What wouldn't be approved of is photocopying someone else's work and dishing it out to anyone interested.
 
... which is exactly what I do, EC1.

I can't remember the last time I looked at the 'What are you backing today' thread.

I don't look at all much at the Chit Chat forum because I can see at a glance who is posting there, most of whom I have on ignore which make it pointless looking.
 
icebreaker said:
For as long as I know Chris (ten years?), he has been an advocate of this idea on FF and elsewhere. And to the best of my knowledge it has not been implemented by any admin of any forum -- for a good reason,very good reasons, some of which have been specified in DVD's post#86 above.
The logical conclusion o fa desire for privacy and concealment would be to put the forum on the Darknet accessible only via TOR encryption and private-key membership. How extreme is that.
We're discussing horseracing, for god's sake, and other betting related sports, with a little natter on ChitChat thrown in. ............... not the undiscovered secret of nuclear cold fusion. No matter what some person on here thinks will win the Kempton 3:05, the final indicator of its chances will be the Betfair market where all information is assimilated, disassembled and put back together in an Odds format five minutes before the Off to indicate its true chance of winning.
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I had a chat once with a compiler/ trader (whatever they did?) for a majorish firm about this, and they laughed their heads off at the idea that any bookie would use a forum to adjust their odds. In fact they went further, and suggested that if they were caught doing so, they'd likely be facing disciplinary action and at the very least would lose a massive amount of peer respect. The influence forum have on a price is very often in the imagination of the posters (albeit you can see influence small liquidity exchange markets). They did conceed the only time that compilers/ traders made any use of a fora (and this one was named) was when they could identify an owner discussing running plans and that was their primary reason for using it (intelligence gathering really)
 
I once considered the idea of a sub-forum made up of the Celtic nations contributors would be a good idea. But since then the English have raised their game. PDJ and his brother left and Ardross seems to have relaxed a little. Having said that, I still think they have a bit to find.

I wish we could re-attract Barry, Brian H, Steve M and some of the other battlefield casualties we have lost through the years.

If I could ban one thing it would be posters using the 'real' first name of an alias. Nothing screams clique and elitism as much as this. I was talking to Art, Gearoid and Nick at Leopardstown and they agree.
 
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