Grand Prix de Paris

Tartan Bearer was being vigorously ridden at The Curragh before any interference occured -he just isn't good enough.
I don't do nationalism when it comes to racing but in my opinion The Currah hosts Europes premier Derby-Epsom is a glorified flapping track and is no place for Group 1 races never mind classics.I remember a couple of years ago people saying that Sir Percy must be better then Dylan Thomas because he had beaten him at Epsom-and that was after DT won the Irish Derby.Nobody in their right mind would make that claim now.
 
Ryan Moore said he didnt even give it the hardest whip out on Tartan Bearer before the interference so to say vigoursly is downright absurd. Anyway Tartan Bearer always looks like its going all out even when its not. Tartan Bearer if avoided for the Leger which they need to has every chance in the Arc

Surely you cant use the Irish Derby to justify form.
 
He was being vigorously ridden before any interference occured-I didn't say anything about the whip.Tartan Bearer had ever chance at Epsom before being beaten by a horse who pulled like a train.He wont be winning the Arc.
 
Outstanding performance, although with Doctor Freemantle being hampered it means maybe New Approach is the better horse of the two with the distance beeing the same.
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Montmarte was only being kidded over the line today, whilst New Approach was all out at Epsom. Until we know we're going to see NA again, though, it's unfortunately a bit academic.
 
He may not win the Arc but it has a chance, you are totally wrong about it being ridden vigoursly, it wasnt anything of the sort, I dunno what you were watching to be honest, Tartan Bearer always looks like that even in a poor maiden it looked the same, Tartan Bearer is a lazy horse and will catch anything, it just races to its nearest competitor every race, like in the Dante, Epsom and at The Curragh when it was with Curtain Call before being wiped out, when you look at the Dante Frozen Fire tried to take off but Tartan Bearer caught it and then more or less stopped racing until FF tried to get its head back front, Epsom it was racing with Casual Conquest which allowed New Approach to get a start on it and the ground to make up was too much. Tartan Bearer would have won the Irish Derby if it wasnt for Alessandro Volta, like Stoute says he looks like every performace is workmanlike but he is top class, his form is superb, I gurantee if he goes to the Arc he places. Leger he has no chance cause he isnt a 1m 6 horse and I think he has shown the abilty to be better than his brother Golan.

Still if I was going for a winner I would pick between New Approach if it runs or Montmartre.
 
Gareth Flynn said:
Montmarte was only being kidded over the line today, whilst New Approach was all out at Epsom. Until we know we're going to see NA again, though, it's unfortunately a bit academic.
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A valid point just that it made its move from the front where as New Approach did it the hard way. If it runs could be a great dual none the less.
 
redriot said:
Epsom it was racing with Casual Conquest which allowed New Approach to get a start on it and the ground to make up was too much.


Tartan Bearer hit the front 2 out at Epsom-he had every chance to win if he was good enough-which he wasn't.
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Tartan Bearer is not a horse that is going to launch off it needed New Approach to take off to get going again, if you are not going to understand what I am trying to say, dont know if I can waste my time explaining it to you.
 
Are you saying that Tartan Bearer needs everything to go right for him.Personally I think he is a bridle ponce.
 
Thats New Approach isnt it?

If New Approach was not in the Derby, Tartan Bearer would have won the Derby by probably a head to Casual Conquest. Its a lazy horse, a concept maybe you dont understand.
 
Looked good


New Approach is a win and place lay imo if he lines up against Momnmarte, Youmzain, Soldier Fortune, Zarakava etc in Arc
 
Galileo said:
Does this mean Zarakava misses the Arc? The Aga Khan is not really in to clashing his stars or am I mistaken?

Both the Aga Khan and Dupre were interviewed after the race and the only way they won't both run in the Arc is if it comes up heavy, as that won't suit Zarkava.

Some interesting comments too from the trainer, who said the win wasn't a big surprise. Apparently at home there are only two horses can go with Prix d'Ispahan winner Sageburg over a mile (and off level weights), no need to tell you which two they are.

Not a bad win though for a second string !!
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Corals:

Zarkava 5
Montmartre 6 (Betfair 5.9)
SoF 6
DoM 7
New Approach 7

Joe`s oddsmaker sticking his neck out there.
 
Galileo said:
Boom is right! Mightily impressive....nice price you have now Andrew & betsmate!
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Cheers .. but to be fair, the only reason I was made aware of him was Betsmate's posts on him so all credit to him.

My stake is quite small but it's worth a trip to Longchamp!
 
The Arc is one of two Flat races each year I will have a bet on (the other being the Ascot Gold Cup). Ordinarily I would wait until the day, before having a wager, but I confess I've had a handful of the Grasshopper kopeks on Montmartre at 38, on the back of Betsmate's enthusiasm and bullishness. Let's hope I don't bogey the lot of you.

Note to Warbler: Don't waste your time - you know I won't buy it! :D
 
From Sportinglife.co.uk

TIMEFORM WARNING OVER MONTMARTRE

Timeform have five horses above Montmartre in their ratings for the Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe.


Alain de Royer-Dupre's charge shot to favouritism for the Longchamp showpiece following his four-length win in Monday's Grand Prix de Paris.
However the Halifax-based firm have sounded a note of caution regarding his chances of getting the better of the likes of Duke of Marmalade and New Approach in October.


Kieran Packman, Timeform's Communication Manager, said: "There is no denying that Montmartre was visually impressive as he coasted home over the Arc course and distance, but the placed horses, Prospect Wells and Magadan, were given a lot to do as the race panned out, whereas Christophe Soumillon always had Montmartre closer to the pace.
"Even allowing for the nature of his success, we're of the opinion that he will have to improve again if he's to match the level of form achieved by Duke of Marmalade at Ascot, New Approach at Epsom or, indeed, Youmzain in France last time.


"However, he is certainly a live contender and adds further luster to what is already a fascinating race in prospect, with the potential presence of leading dirt horse Curlin.


"The latter was around a stone below his dirt form when beaten by Red Rocks at the weekend though, so it remains to be seen if connections will pursue their Arc aspirations.
 
Warblers speed figure puts him about half a length behind Rail Link in the same race. Unfortunately though, the bookies seem to have latched onto the merits of the GP du Paris after Bago and Rail Link, and haven't left the horse at 20's to 16's as they did the latter. The track variance was about +3.89 (possibly higher) which is firm ground
 
Packman's views are interesting but there's a counter-argument which says that the jockeys on the placed horses judged the (strong) pace exactly right but had reckoned without something that raced prominently being able to go clear like Montmartre did.
 
Timeform has lost the plot with this ratings this season

About Montmertre, it is exactly the opposite, the fact of the 2nd, 3th, 4th and 5th were in rear of the field and the time very being very fast suggest the race panned better for the others rather than for him.


About New Approach on 131, really funny, I can have him in more than 125 at the moment and I rate Montmartre on 131p for yesterdays (including 3l value).


Youmizain is also a good horse , but can not have it in more than 126 or 127.


Soldier Of Fortune is on 126 for this year and 130? for last season Irish Derby.



About Duke Of Marmalade , I have him in 130+. needs firm, doubts about 12f and is not being trained for the Arc.


Montmartre could still improve even more in soft ground and will have the ideal prep for an Arc winner.
 
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