Hillsborough

Harbinger

Harbinger

At the Start
Joined
Mar 22, 2004
Messages
11,282
Gob-smacking, isn't it?

Anyone with half a brain could tell the police monumentally fucked up and then lied about it, but the scale and the sheer callousness of it really is appalling.

I hope the families go the whole hog and nail every last official who had a hand in the cover up.

Full report from the independent panel is on:

http://hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/
 
I remember well seeing the live footage on TV (never shown again too) and thinking wtf is plod doing?

They were simply watching people die in front of them. Just standing there...live on bbc1

I have nothing but contempt for every officer involved on that day
 
Is that a bit harsh, Clive? Honest questoion.

I remember the tragedy well, even though I was just 11. I remember feeling guilty later about how annoyed I was initially that they didn't continue to play the game.

My memory was of police officers helping carry people on stretchers, and some of them had to haul bodies out of the crush.
 
..police are easy to blame..yes i'm sure they didn't handle it as they should have done....and i'm sure they lied..they were total b~stards to the miners..real total b*stards

but also those that should take a slice of blame should be the idiots in the 70's who regularly invaded pitches which caused the fences to go up in the first place

there are many "fans" who should be holding their hands up and saying if i wasn't such a tw*t in the 70's no one would have died at hillsborough

its very convenient to forget why those ridiculous fences ever went up....and they were what trapped people in there.

but i've never yet seen anyone lay any blame at those that caused fans to be caged like animals..

caging people like animals was always going to end up with something like that happening to be fair
 
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Barry

Hauling out bodies after the event after a complete failure of crowd control hardlu compensates does it

They didnt just watch people die for 5 minutes and then react a little bit late...they watched them, whistling with their hands in their pockets no doubt, for ******* ages.

It was incredible

It was frankly manslaughter and convictions for the very same should have followed

EC... police are easy to blame because it was their ******* JOB
 
and what a job..herding people into pens with no way out..a cracking idea that was..caged

yes they are to blame more than most..its their job etc..but no one has 100% blame...others share it but forget they were to blame for fences being erected is all i'm saying

to be fair..the way they policed and covered up after hillsborough was par for the course in the 70's & 80's in how policing was carried out

i'm surprised they didn't fit someone up for the ripper murders just to get the press off their backs..they usually did anything for a quick result.
 
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granger said:
On a side note where are the FA today? They have plenty of blame to take here
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I was wondering this too. Have they ever apologised for using Hillsborough for the game despite it not having a safety cert and there having been issues in past semi-finals there?
 
granger said:
Grossly incompetent and froze. Their actions and moreso their lack thereof caused deaths. The subsequent coverup and lies are unforgivable
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the actions in having people penned in cages is also unforgiveable..can you possibly imagine if there had been cages up at the Bradford fire?
 
Gareth Flynn said:
I was wondering this too. Have they ever apologised for using Hillsborough for the game despite it not having a safety cert and there having been issues in past semi-finals there?
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If they did Gareth, it must have been very mild as I can find no record of it

They are the only associated element who have failed to make a statement today, Sheffield Wednesday made their own public statement.

The same teams met in the semi's at same venue the year before and there were crushes that day too so lessons were never learned. FA looking completely gutless with the no response today

Best statement I have read on the entire matter is 'Today is about the truth, Justice has still to come'
 
Agree with the comments on Trevor Hicks. A man of immense dignity and decency.
It does seem the first reaction of the police in any circumstances where they`ve cocked-up is to cover-up and smear the victims. And as always our media initially accepts what they say uncritically,as do the public generally. I wonder how the family of Ian Tomlinson feel this morning.

The Hillsborough families deserve our utmost praise for their perseverance and determination in uncovering the truth. Let`s hope justice isn`t too far behind.
 
granger said:
Would hope so

The Book 'Hillsborough - The Truth' by Phil Scratton is a must read on the topic
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I gather that Phil Scraton is the main author of the report published yesterday.

It's good that the truth of what happened is being acknowledged at last.
 
Again this is a genuine question; I am trying to learn.

Is it not bizarre that the main author or the report had previously written a book on the subject. Is it not akin to having a juror in a murder case that had previously written a book called Why I Think Mr. Jones Killed his Wife.

I am not doubting the veracity of the report. But wouldn't it be easy to do so on that basis?
 
Barry,

The purpose of the committee was

The Panel's role is to ensure that the Hillsborough families and the wider public receive the maximum possible disclosure of all relevant information relating to the context, circumstances and aftermath of the tragedy. It is also the Panel's role to research and analyse the documents and provide a comprehensive report on what their disclosure adds to public understanding
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With that in mind, Is it not fair so say that he was one of the leading subject matter experts on the topic on the basis of his past piece and now that full disclosure of all available documents was available that his non selection would have been more alarming.
 
Barry, I was in the stand to the side on the day. If I remember rightly ( how could you forget? ), I was in row 11, about online with the edge of the penalty area. The police came out and stood in a line a la how stewards used to 3 mins before a match ends, about 5 yards apart along the stand in front of us. Effectively just trying to stop anyone getting on to the pitch. People were dying to the side of them and they stood there. I hope that goes some way to answering your question.
 
clivex said:
Barry

Hauling out bodies after the event after a complete failure of crowd control hardlu compensates does it

They didnt just watch people die for 5 minutes and then react a little bit late...they watched them, whistling with their hands in their pockets no doubt, for ******* ages.

It was incredible

It was frankly manslaughter and convictions for the very same should have followed

EC... police are easy to blame because it was their ******* JOB
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Exactly. In fact, I'm pretty sure the police stood back in a line, arms crossed, and wouldn't let Liverpool fans past them with stricken people as they thought they were trying to get to the Forest fans for a fight at the other end. Incredible.
 
granger said:
Barry,

The purpose of the committee was



With that in mind, Is it not fair so say that he was one of the leading subject matter experts on the topic on the basis of his past piece and now that full disclosure of all available documents was available that his non selection would have been more alarming.
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Fair enough, I suppose. And thanks Dave, Clive and Hamm for educating me further.

I still think it is a bit unfair to tar all the police with the same brush (some of them were surely following orders and unaware of what happened). But I recognise the fact that I am possibly talking through my hat.
 
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