Hope No-ones Intending To Fly This Week....

Originally posted by BrianH@Aug 10 2006, 07:42 PM
In the middle of all this I think it should be mentioned what a good inteligence job the security services and the Met Police special anti-terrorist branch have done. I understand that they were aided greatly by both the US and Pakistan security services.
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Indeed. They have literally saved hundreds if not thousands of lives.
 
Originally posted by Craig_uk@Aug 10 2006, 11:09 AM

Start stopping the people from the background these bad people are from and they might try take an interest in who is doing what in there communities and root out the evil,

It really angers me that British/Pakistani's are rumoured to behind this, they should send them back with their families to enjoy what their country has to offer, they might learn that life in the West isn't so bad!

It goes back to the days at school when a certain boy had done something wrong, we all got in the sh#t, we all had to suffer and had to sort it out between ourselves, we all had to suffer for someone's nonsense, we soon sorted out who had done what.
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Having tacitly acknowledged therefore Craig, that the solution lies from within the communities you describe, and bringing those people onside? I'm seriosuly struggling to reconcile how you then view a mass repatriation (assuming of course that the ocuntry of origin accepts them all - which they won't) as the answer?

On the one hand you're putting these very communities on the front line in the domestic fight, acknowledging that they're your best weapon. And yet on the other hand you're advocating sending them en mass back to countries where they're much more likely to fall under the spell of radical islam, esepcailly as they will be now feeling embittered and aggrieved. They'll have access to a melting pot of influences, they'll have benefited from European educations and speak good English. In short it would only require a fraction of them to radicalise in order to present a much more formidable threat, and a largely unnecessary one of our own making. History is littered with examples of exiled dissidents coming back to seriously bite the country that deported them, with this in mind your suggestion is tactically a poor one I fear, and likely only to increase the threat. In much the same way that both the Israelis and Americans don't seem to be learning lessons about the realtionship between killing civilian populations, and popularising radical causes.

I'm afraid your parallel with school, is just to simplistic to warrant comment.

I would however, ask you to consider, based on all the histroical evidence what the real effects of your prescribed actions would translate into, and how it would be manipulated and used globally. I fear you'd be playing into their hands, whilst providing a the Islamists with a ready made aggrieved population from which to recruit.
 
Look, everyone, there's no point in arguing with Craig. The man is quite clearly a buffoon who has noticed that his outrageous views get him some attention so he is decided to step things up a notch and has succeeded in winding people up a bit.

Brian makes a valid point. For all the mistakes that have been made in the past, this was quite clearly an outstanding effort by all the relevant intelligence teams. Good work.

Of course, there is a tragedy behind all of this, in that ordinary decent working people of Arabic/Pakistani/or whatever descent you want to pick out [Indian!???] will be prejudiced against. On my MSN, a younger sibling of a good mate of mine added a strap to their name this afternoon which said, "I hate those paki terrorist bombers..no wait..I just hate fucking pakis"

18 years old and already so, pardon the pun, coloured.

Fucking wonderful, innit?
 
turns out that one of the arrested is in fact a white youth who only converted to islam 6 months ago apparantly has been a bit of a tearaway in the past and not someone you would want to argue with

impossible to legislate against that

and with the internet being so popular in the same way a business can now operate from anywhere no need unlike years ago to be placed either near a supplier or client a proponent of terrorism dosnt need to be near either his supply of recruits or his intended victims
 
I think people are being a tad harsh on Craig UK. If the IRA took to Suicide bombing, I would like the credentials of the two other Irishmen who got onto a plane with me to be meticulously and particularly checked out.

Of course the bomb could be set off by someone who doesn't appear to be Irish, and the meticulous checking can run overboard.
 
My parents flew to Thailand during the night, as a part of their annual trip to the region, to help the people and provide aid. Whilst they were on the plane, there was a newsflash here in Australia, around 11pm about the proposed plot to bomb the planes. Of course I started to panic, hoping they would be alright. I barely slept last night, totally worried.

They called this morning thank god, safe and sound in Bangkok, before they venture into the jungle for the next 3 weeks. Apparently it only made the news this morning in Thailand.

What saddens me most is that people of ethnic backgrounds whom are not white, whom have no interest in this, will again suffer, because some radical fanatic has posted hatrid to the west.
Unfortunately a good friend of mine, Asher, an Orthodox Pakistani was actually bashed several days after the September 11 bombings, because he was "an arab." and wasn't "white." Despite showing his attackers his cross to prove that he was in fact catholic/orthodox, it meant nothing.

I saw what hate did several months ago at Cronulla Beach, which made headlines around the world, and again I hope hate is not spread.
 
Originally posted by Melendez@Aug 11 2006, 09:18 AM
I think people are being a tad harsh on Craig UK. If the IRA took to Suicide bombing, I would like the credentials of the two other Irishmen who got onto a plane with me to be meticulously and particularly checked out.

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Under Craig's rules that would be any whitish coloured person who just might be Irish
 
Originally posted by Melendez@Aug 11 2006, 08:18 AM
I think people are being a tad harsh on Craig UK. If the IRA took to Suicide bombing, I would like the credentials of the two other Irishmen who got onto a plane with me to be meticulously and particularly checked out.

Of course the bomb could be set off by someone who doesn't appear to be Irish, and the meticulous checking can run overboard.
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It's a somewhat erroneous endorsement of Craig's position Mel, to put it mildly. Under the terms of international carriage passengers credentials are checked anyway, I really don't see what you're adding therefore? Should also point out that Craig advocated forced repatriation, which is a long way from profiling, which presumedly is something he wouldn't confine to an airports compund. And then having indiscriminately demonised based on skin pigmentation (lets not forget he raised the somewhat ignorant and spurious classification that Indians and Pakistanis are the same, despite the fact that they periodically come to the brink of war with each other, have different types of government, different dominant religions, not to mention long standing territorial disputes).

Perhaps more pertinantly you mgiht recall not so long ago the events of July 11th on a Mumbai train? Given that Craig wishes to target profile based on skin colour, I'd be more interested to know how he'd justify this in a fight against terror, when stopping a Hindu, who points out the 174 dead as recently as 1 month ago. Or could it be he forgot? Afterall no Americans or British, or white Autsralians in nightclubs forming the majority of the body count. Essentially, similar bomb types, similar method of attack, similar outcomes to Madrid, yet which one do we recall
 
I agree with Brian on the intelligence services and don't believe what I am going to suggest in the rest of the post, but it may be worth a thought. I know H is a fan of Oliver Stone he is always ready to accept a conspiracy theory.

1. The last mega profile media arrests did not lead to any charges. Just a suit for wrongful arrest.

2. There was little news about Lebanon or Iraq on the TV last night.

Should we worry about a perpetuation of Michael Moore's theory in F911?
 
Originally posted by an capall@Aug 11 2006, 01:28 PM
Should we worry about a perpetuation of Michael Moore's theory in F911?
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Always. For example, we have never had a reason for Blunkett sending the tanks into Heathrow!

But I think we'll find that this one is straight.
 
I'm shocked by the behaviour of the tour operator responsible for my holiday in October. I chose not to pay an extortionate amount for a crap meal on the flight, somewhere in the region of about £50 if I remember correctly. They phoned me today to ask if I wanted to add the cost of the meals to my bill considering the latest news about no hand luggage. I pointed out I wasn't going until October, I hoped the situation will have calmed down by then and that going without food for a couple of hours was a small price to pay. Money grabbing scaremongerers!
 
Originally posted by BrianH+Aug 11 2006, 01:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BrianH @ Aug 11 2006, 01:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-an capall@Aug 11 2006, 01:28 PM
Should we worry about a perpetuation of Michael Moore's theory in F911?
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Always. For example, we have never had a reason for Blunkett sending the tanks into Heathrow!

But I think we'll find that this one is straight. [/b][/quote]
I thought we had, or aspects of it leaked out?, and it was indeed quite embarrassing. It was based around a BA flight number, (the same one each time) but they put 2 and 2 together and made 105. I'll try and check it out, but i'm sure it was another example of cross porpoises? and total mis-reading of an otherwise innocent intercept

A bit like when they got the wrong people in another raid, and found a ticket for Man Utd v's Liverpool. They security services duly reacted and increased security for the forthcoming fixture at Old Trafford. Problem was of course, they didn't realise the ticket was a year old, and was missing the tear off counterfoil, the receipient having kept the bit they hand back to the spectator, for souvenir purposes. :shy:

Mind you when you add Lofti Raissi, Melendez, that raid/ shooting about 3 weeks ago, plus the on going disaster that are the Bellmarsh detainees, I'm not sure our track record is that good in getting the right people.

It would appear that the ISI were largely behind this though, which makes me think that its more likely to be the genuine article, especially as the CIA set them up. ISI are essentially a subordinated off shoot of the CIA. Its certainly encourging to see them back in the fold too having threatend to go native a little bit a few years ago.

Out of interest, when is the ID cards bill due for its next airing? I dare say this episode will be used in mitigation thus.

I'm not sure that it wasn't an ISI/ CIA operation with MI5 doing the sweeping up and taking the public glory? Time will tell, and I could be wrong, but like I said our record to date has been poor in identifying anyone other than the those who stand in the street and preach. Even I could spot them, for crying out loud. With the pressures currently on MI5, both Blairs (Tony as well as Ian) a high profile swoop is just what they needed, and coming less than 24 hours after John Reids speech at DEMOS, you might wonder a bit?
 
A bit of memory jogging later (alright and a phone call to boot).

The tanks deployed at Heathrow were the result of credible sources, 'chatter' and intercepts centred around BA flight 223. This was the LHR departure for Dulles that was repeatedly cancelled on a daily basis around February 2004. Despite being called highly credible at the time, it later emerged that the conversations actually pertained to a UN resolution, 223 (one of many that criticises the Israelis treatment of the Palestinians).

Suffice to say our spooks interpreted this to be preparations for an attack against the flight, overlooking the context.

Suffice to say, Blunkett put out some story to suggest that the deployment of tanks had stopped a plan to shoot down an aircraft!!! Quite how he thinks stationing a light armoured vehicle from the Queens Cavalry on the perimeter fence is going to prevent/ bring down a Service to Air Missile, capable of being fired at any point on 100 mile corridor I don't know? The fitting of heat seeking decoys to civilian aircraft, or a phalanx gun (as used in the Navy) might have a limited chance, but a tank!!!

Basically the response didn't match the explanation, and once it became clear that the chatter related to a UN resolution and not a BA flight, the tanks disappeared as quickly as they came, with Blunkett proclaiming it a success, and everyone seemingly told to bury the real reason. I believe BA lost the flight in question a few months later as people had become to scared to use it. The government couldn't convince the public otherwise, without admitting that the intelligence services had basically cocked up.
 
Courtesy of Kim Bailey's website these are the latest innovations at airports where of course new measures have been put in place now to make sure that nothing is hidden from the naked eye; you must be able to see what is going on behind the screens. Some companies have already gone to great lengths; these new vending machines were spotted at a local airport last night.

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Proof at last, thanks to DG.

Ever since I was a child I've maintained that was how those vending machines worked.
 
My parents fly back from Cyprus tomorrow and are not looking forward to any potential delays.
 
Soba having taken two under 5s, we did count clouds and see what shape they can take. Its amazing what you can see in a cloud if you look, granted we were only going to paris but it might help. Clouds look so much better above.
 
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