Horse Racing,, too many bad jockeys?

A

Alfie1

Amateur Rider
Joined
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Love to know what gunuine racing lovers think.

Personally I think bad jockeys are killing racing. I miss big mac, never afraid to call out a bad ride, dodgy trainer or anything adverse in general in racing.

I think too many Jockeys are vastly overrated and there's a big gap between 1st rate and 2nd rate.
, I look at Galway and look at the continuous poor rides given to horses and can understand why younger people don't have an interest unless it's a student outing
Love to know what the folks in here think
 
I wouldn't judge any jockey or horse for not running well at places like Galway or Chester.

Since they started publishing the sectional data at the ATR site I've been checking the efficiency of rides of a lot of horses. In the last couple of weeks the number of horses achieving an efficiency [of ride] rating of A, A+ and even A++ is very encouraging.

I'm as guilty as anyone of slating jockeys but I'm open to the idea that the general level is good but I will call out a poor tactical ride if I see one.
 
I've lost count of the number of jockeys who have ridden my horses but I can happily state that none of them were bad jockeys. Some, including champions and future champions, have given the horse an ill-judged ride but bad jockeys quickly fade away because no-one will employ them.

Let's face it, any talk like this is 90% pocket talk which is interesting because I'd say that if you're looking at jockeys,
5% are top rank
5% are poor
and
90% are the vast majority who are adequate and will win most times on the best horse if things go their way.
 
I'm sure it was trainer John Berry who said jockeys can only make around 4 to 5 per cent difference to a horses performance. Obviously certain jockeys get on better with certain horses but too many jockeys either have a rush of blood to the head or overdo the spencer impersonation. Ryan Moore rides on percentages and looks to minimise the chance of cocking it up which punters I'm sure can appreciate. He invariable gets lucky with overcoming bad draws as we saw with cot in the derby although he was clearly the best horse on the day.
He has been sensational on tower of London for instance. He does occasionally get it wrong but even Lester did that.
Tom marquand another jockey who makes very few mistakes. IMHO of course.
 
Coach miguel said:
I'm sure it was trainer John Berry who said jockeys can only make around 4 to 5 per cent difference to a horses performance. Obviously certain jockeys get on better with certain horses but too many jockeys either have a rush of blood to the head or overdo the spencer impersonation. Ryan Moore rides on percentages and looks to minimise the chance of cocking it up which punters I'm sure can appreciate. He invariable gets lucky with overcoming bad draws as we saw with cot in the derby although he was clearly the best horse on the day.
He has been sensational on tower of London for instance. He does occasionally get it wrong but even Lester did that.
Tom marquand another jockey who makes very few mistakes. IMHO of course.
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I look at Moore and buick differently to most other jockeys quite simply as they are riding superstars as opposed to your average jocks.
The playing field is slightly different in NH but you still have a few riding better horses

I dont see any mccoys riding with the will to win and just pure raw ability he had,, on the flat, there are certainly no fallons, piggotts, kinanes, murtages or dettories

You'd look at races today and you'd see after the 2nd race the one part of the track is riding faster yet you'd still have so called good Jockeys coming down the slower side and rarely winning, those above named never made them mistakes
 
archie said:
I've lost count of the number of jockeys who have ridden my horses but I can happily state that none of them were bad jockeys. Some, including champions and future champions, have given the horse an ill-judged ride but bad jockeys quickly fade away because no-one will employ them.

Let's face it, any talk like this is 90% pocket talk which is interesting because I'd say that if you're looking at jockeys,
5% are top rank
5% are poor
and
90% are the vast majority who are adequate and will win most times on the best horse if things go their way.
Click to expand...
 
Look at the tracks and more closely at attendance, it's dropping rapidly simply because your clued in gen z goes racing, possibly on a student outing and sees with unbiased eyes how bad the sport has become.

They would sooner go watch a match and invest their money on something that makes more sense and isn't driven by too many negatives.

People who say the negative chat is financially driven I believe are doing a terrible injustice to this great sport and not addressing the seriousness of the issues it's facing

Bad jockeys, bad trainers, bad owners, that's part of the problem which is now killing this sport
 
Great jockeys have an instinct or feel that cannot be taught.
They allow a horse to breathe without interfering with them, do not chase them along or unsettle them while they organise themselves to run.
Conor McNamara's win today at Cork is a prime example as is Derek O Connor's Bumper win.
Flipping a horse's soft palate while changing hold of the reins is possibly one of the main reasons why horses lose races they should not.
That instinct cannot be taught.
 
edgt said:
Great jockeys have an instinct or feel that cannot be taught.
They allow a horse to breathe without interfering with them, do not chase them along or unsettle them while they organise themselves to run.
Conor McNamara's win today at Cork is a prime example as is Derek O Connor's Bumper win.
Flipping a horse's soft palate while changing hold of the reins is possibly one of the main reasons why horses lose races they should not.
That instinct cannot be taught.
edgt said:
Great jockeys have an instinct or feel that cannot be taught.
They allow a horse to breathe without interfering with them, do not chase them along or unsettle them while they organise themselves to run.
Conor McNamara's win today at Cork is a prime example as is Derek O Connor's Bumper win.
Flipping a horse's soft palate while changing hold of the reins is possibly one of the main reasons why horses lose races they should not.
That instinct cannot be taught.
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When I was a kid, seen John Jo ó Néill ón dawn rún, I see dawn run win its first race ridden by its owner charmaine Hill but to get back to riding, ó Néill Was naturally gifted at allowing a horse to organise itself, perfect example was when it beat wayward lad in run in for the gold cup
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Colm Murphy once told me that the jockey he wanted to book for his horses was whoever was on a good roll at the time and feeling confident.

Frankie Dettori for one has shown how when a jockey is on it they can get a horse to do the same.
 
Alfie -Big Mac was a bit of a bully who liked to punch down.When Barey Curley confronted him he folded like a deckchair.
 
As in most walks of life;the cream will rise to the top.
Imo,it's the same with punters,and the worse one is,the more they'll blame someone else for their own ineptitude.
 
LUKE said:
Alfie -Big Mac was a bit of a bully who liked to punch down.When Barey Curley confronted him he folded like a deckchair.
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Big Mac had his faults but Curley made himself look a prick in that episode.
 
LUKE said:
Alfie -Big Mac was a bit of a bully who liked to punch down.When Barey Curley confronted him he folded like a deckchair.
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Bully or not, he called it as he saw it and with regards to Curley despite his love of religion, he was a gangster who pulled horses accordingly to get them well handicapped so he alone could profit, not forgetting all the times they ran previously and punters backed in good faith.

Look at galway last week, RUK and other media are non stop what a great weeks racing, racing lovers in Ireland are saying racing is dying, Galway was terrible, far lower crowd, worst racing in memory,, form has no meaning, and the 200/1 winner came with the most biggest audible groan from crowd that even the big bookies are worried about its future
 
reet hard said:
As in most walks of life;the cream will rise to the top.
Imo,it's the same with punters,and the worse one is,the more they'll blame someone else for their own ineptitude.
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How can it be called ineptitude when on your average class 3 to 6 race, which make up the bulk of most races in UK, ran anywhere in the UK, only a few horses are ever trying to win.

The prize money is rubbish, it costs 1000s to keep them in training per month,
Owning horses isn't a charity, mostly business people own horses, unless they can break even or not make a great loss, they have no reason to be involved

That's why thru a nice gamble every now and then can they justify their involvement
 
Desert Orchid said:
Same with McCririck.

I never fell for his'punter's pal' act either. He was a bookies' muppet.
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He became irrelevant with the rise of betfair.I first saw him in the flesh at Sandown in 1993 and an hour before racing he couldn't get away from ordinary punters fast enough.
 
walsworth said:
Certainly did.
I never fell for Curley's "punters friend" crap, he was a cheat.
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What was his record regarding cheating -I'm not really aware of it.

He did an interview for Luck on Sunday before he died -Which was very interesting -well worth a look.
 
LUKE said:
He became irrelevant with the rise of betfair.I first saw him in the flesh at Sandown in 1993 and an hour before racing he couldn't get away from ordinary punters fast enough.
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I saw him 'in action' behind the scenes at Ayr one day. His behaviour towards a group of three young women was an utter disgrace.
 
LUKE said:
What was his record regarding cheating -I'm not really aware of it.

He did an interview for Luck on Sunday before he died -Which was very interesting -well worth a look.
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Curley is an angel compared to where we are now. Years ago, your average owner was in it for the fun and love of the game, when the sheikhs arrived and put it up to sangster and Co, everything changed, coolmore appeared and it became a them and us.

Your average owner was now relegated to poor class racing and it was costing them a fortune. Most left and what your left with today are those fighting for the scraps and the only way of surviving is pulling a good coup every now and then. But to pull that coup, your horse has to be handicapped and the best way of doing that is sending him out for a few races and making sure all involved know he's not to run well.
If anyone thinks any different, they are just stupid
 
Alfie1 said:
Look at the tracks and more closely at attendance, it's dropping rapidly simply because your clued in gen z goes racing, possibly on a student outing and sees with unbiased eyes how bad the sport has become.

They would sooner go watch a match and invest their money on something that makes more sense and isn't driven by too many negatives.

People who say the negative chat is financially driven I believe are doing a terrible injustice to this great sport and not addressing the seriousness of the issues it's facing

Bad jockeys, bad trainers, bad owners, that's part of the problem which is now killing this sport
Click to expand...
I presume that you are part of the clued in gen z whatever that is.

Be that as it may, you asked for opinions and I gave mine based on 55 years gambling and 40 years ownership experience. You are, of course, fully entitled to your opinion although I think you are grossly undervaluing the contribution of journeymen (and women) jockeys who keep the game going for very little reward.
 
I know he's in the news but I have never been a fan of Keiren Shoemark. Someone should grab Rossa Ryan who is one of the best up and coming riders out there
 
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